I can't see how stress-energy tensor meets the minumum tensor requirement

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties and transformations of the stress-energy tensor, particularly in the context of changing coordinate systems. Participants explore the implications of using different units and how these affect the representation of the tensor, as well as the integration of tensors in various forms.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a simple dust model and presents the stress-energy tensor in different coordinate systems, questioning the correctness of their transformation.
  • Another participant suggests a different notation for the tensor, proposing a form that separates mass density and other components for integration purposes.
  • A reference to an article is introduced, which discusses the transformation of the symmetric stress tensor into a 3-form for integration, raising questions about the integration of tensors of various ranks.
  • There is a mention of the conventional treatment of energy as related to a spacelike 3-dimensional hypersurface, with a query about the possibility of considering energy in a 4-dimensional domain.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the representation and transformation of the stress-energy tensor, with no consensus reached on the correct approach or interpretation of the tensor in different coordinate systems.

Contextual Notes

Participants note potential issues with unit conversions and tensor transformations, as well as the implications of integrating tensors over different dimensional domains. Specific mathematical steps and assumptions remain unresolved.

Sammywu
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Gentlemen,

I am sorry. I did a few typing errors here in order to put latex in and I even use 12 minute = 1 hour. This might confuse you.

Let me try to correct this.

Said , I use the simple dust model with 216,000 grams in a volume of 1 light-hour^3. So, [tex]T^\mu\nu[/tex] = diag(216000 , 0, 0, 0) in a coordinates using light-hour as the unit.

If now, I change to the unit of light-minute. The energy density shall be 216000 gram/ 60^3 = 1 gram/light-minute^3. So, in this coordinate
[tex]T^{\mu\nu}[/tex] = diag(1,0,0,0).

Now, if I use the standard tensor translation:
[tex]T^{\mu' \nu'}[/tex] = [tex]T^{\mu\nu} * \partial x^\mu' / \partial x^\mu * \partial x^\nu' / \partial x^\nu[/tex]

I will never get it right.
Rather, [tex]\partial x^\mu' / \partial x^\mu[/tex] = diag (60, 60, 60, 60).

Every 60 light-minute equals to 1 light-hour. For a point as (1,1,1,1) in the [tex]\mu[/tex] coordinate, its coordinates will be (60,60,60,60) for the light-minute coordinates.

I will have 216000*3600 for the energy density for the stress-energy tensor in the coordiante of light-minute then.

Did I do something wrong here?

If not, how do you reconcile this?

Thanks
 
Last edited:
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Gentlemen,

Sorry,

I intend for upper [tex]\mu[/tex] , but can't get it working.
 
Use braces {} around your mu and nu thus: T^{\mu\nu}.
 
Thanks.

Any way, I figured out what's going on. It's a convenient way for you to write it and describe [tex]T^{00}[/tex] as mass density.

Actually, it is probably more correct to write a tensor as
[tex]T^\mu _{abc}[/tex]
in away such that
[tex]T^0 _{abc} = (1/6)*Mass*Time/Volume[/tex] for (a,b,c) = perm(1,2,3)
and
[tex]T^i _{abc} = (1/6)*Mass*Length/(Area*Time)[/tex] for i not= 0 and (a,b,c) = perm(0,1,2) or perm(0,1,3) or perm(0,2,3)

The above tensor could be used in integration.

And the stress-energy tensor in most article will be:

[tex]T^{\mu\nu} = T^\mu _{abc} \epsilon^{abc\nu}[/tex]

Any way a definition taking out the mass density part as a coefficient probablly will do too.

Regards
 
Robphy has introduced this article in the thread about energy:

http://relativity.livingreviews.org...04-4/index.html

In its page 11, EQ (6) has shown how the symmetric stress tensor needs to be transformed to a 3-form for integration, so as in EQ (7). .

In its page 26, a tensor of rank(0,4) as 'Bel-Robinson" momentum was shown how it can be integrated to become a quantity as energy.

In its page 25, one of the approach to a conserved quantity could be integration over a 4-dimensional domain. This of course will better be a tensor of either rank (0,4) or (1,4). I think.

Most of current approaches mentioned treat energy as a quantity pertained to a spacelike 3-dimensional hypersurface.

I wonder it's possible to look for a physics quantity pertained to a 4-dimensional domain.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

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