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-   -   Suggestion Why is the math output hard to read sometimes? (http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=314512)

squidsoft May16-09 06:55 PM

Why is the math output hard to read sometimes?
 
May I suggest improving the format of the math output in the forum.

Consider the following code:

[tex]
\mathop\textnormal{Res}\limits_{z=-n}\left\{\frac{\pi}{x^s\sin(\pi s)}\right\}=(-x)^n,\quad n=0,-1,-2,\cdots
[/tex]

The equal sign is not well displayed under the Res symbol and the "s" in sine is broken up. I've noticed other problems like this in general. I think PF would look more polished if the math output was nicer looking.

phreak May17-09 12:23 AM

Re: Why is the math output hard to read sometimes?
 
If I recall correctly, it used to be better. I'm not sure when or why the change occurred.

DrGreg Jun1-09 02:46 PM

Re: Why is the math output hard to read sometimes?
 
I suspect the problem might be that the LaTeX renderer (which generates the equation images) may work on the assumption that the equations will be displayed on a white background. On a grey background, some of the pixels are too faint. Is it possible to tweak the LaTeX renderer to take account of the grey background?

chroot Jun2-09 04:01 AM

Re: Why is the math output hard to read sometimes?
 
Hey all,

A year ago or so, something changed in the fonts included in the normal LaTeX distributions that come with most Linux distributions. Along with it were a number of other changes that broke PF's latex system. I rewrote some of it, but never really figured out the problem with the fonts.

I will look into it more. I don't actually think it has anything to do with anti-aliasing. The images are currently anti-aliased to white, and then white is dropped out as transparent. If the strokes look correct when anti-aliased to white, it seems that changing the surrounding white pixels to transparent would not affect them. It's worth a shot, though.

- Warren

DrGreg Jun2-09 09:29 PM

Re: Why is the math output hard to read sometimes?
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Quote by chroot (Post 2220743)
Hey all,

A year ago or so, something changed in the fonts included in the normal LaTeX distributions that come with most Linux distributions. Along with it were a number of other changes that broke PF's latex system. I rewrote some of it, but never really figured out the problem with the fonts.

I will look into it more. I don't actually think it has anything to do with anti-aliasing. The images are currently anti-aliased to white, and then white is dropped out as transparent. If the strokes look correct when anti-aliased to white, it seems that changing the surrounding white pixels to transparent would not affect them. It's worth a shot, though.

- Warren

For what it's worth, I took the PNG image in post #1, on its default white background, and decreased the brightness until its background matched this thread's grey background. I think the result (attached) is therefore what you'd get if anti-aliased to grey. Slightly more legible, I think, but still not great, and I guess that's down to a poor choice of font. Or something.

Moonbear Jun4-09 11:49 AM

Re: Why is the math output hard to read sometimes?
 
Can the font be made bold, either in a default setting or when typed by the user (I never use LaTex, so don't know the ins and outs of this)? It just looks like the font is a bit thin and loses something, so if there's a way to make it bold, that might be enough to improve readability.

DrGreg Jun4-09 01:32 PM

Re: Why is the math output hard to read sometimes?
 
Quote:

Quote by Moonbear (Post 2223911)
Can the font be made bold, either in a default setting or when typed by the user (I never use LaTex, so don't know the ins and outs of this)? It just looks like the font is a bit thin and loses something, so if there's a way to make it bold, that might be enough to improve readability.

That wouldn't be a solution as such, because some equations use both bold and plain font, e.g.
[tex]\mathbf{z} = a\mathbf{x} + b\mathbf{y}[/tex]
although personally I prefer
[tex]\textbf{z} = a\textbf{x} + b\textbf{y}[/tex]
However, if you have a greater choice of font weights than just "plain" and "bold", then some slightly heavier fonts might help.

chroot Jun4-09 02:06 PM

Re: Why is the math output hard to read sometimes?
 
Okay, guys... I changed some of the antialiasing behavior in Ghostscript (I turned it down!), and I think the output looks a little better now. If you could, post some troublesome LaTeX here and see if it renders better now.

- Warren

chroot Jun4-09 02:08 PM

Re: Why is the math output hard to read sometimes?
 
[tex]

\mathop\textnormal{Res}\limits_{z=-n}\left\{\frac{\pi}{x^s\sin(\pi s)}\right\}=(-x)^n,\quad n=0,-1,-2,\cdots

[/tex]

CRGreathouse Jun4-09 02:19 PM

Re: Why is the math output hard to read sometimes?
 
1 Attachment(s)
[tex]\sum_{n=a}^bf(n)[/tex] has a very strong summation symbol.

chroot Jun4-09 02:22 PM

Re: Why is the math output hard to read sometimes?
 
This is how it looked with the old antialiasing options:

[tex]
\sum_{n=a}^bf(n)
[/tex]

- Warren

chroot Jun4-09 02:22 PM

Re: Why is the math output hard to read sometimes?
 
And now the new:

[tex]
\sum_{n=a}^bf(n)
[/tex]

It's really strange that antialiasing options could even cause this in the first place.....

- Warren

chroot Jun4-09 02:23 PM

Re: Why is the math output hard to read sometimes?
 
And with no anti-aliasing at all:

[tex]
\sum_{n=a}^bf(n)
[/tex]

- Warren

chroot Jun4-09 02:26 PM

Re: Why is the math output hard to read sometimes?
 
Fooling around some more:

[tex]
\sum_{n=a}^bf(n)
[/tex]

chroot Jun4-09 02:27 PM

Re: Why is the math output hard to read sometimes?
 
Hmmm...

[tex]
\sum_{n=a}^bf(n)
[/tex]

chroot Jun4-09 02:29 PM

Re: Why is the math output hard to read sometimes?
 
Try try again:

[tex]
\sum_{n=a}^bf(n)
[/tex]

chroot Jun4-09 02:30 PM

Re: Why is the math output hard to read sometimes?
 
[tex]

\mathop\textnormal{Res}\limits_{z=-n}\left\{\frac{\pi}{x^s\sin(\pi s)}\right\}=(-x)^n,\quad n=0,-1,-2,\cdots

[/tex]

chroot Jun4-09 02:31 PM

Re: Why is the math output hard to read sometimes?
 
I'm not really sure I've found a solution. I'll have to keep hunting.

[tex]

\mathop\textnormal{Res}\limits_{z=-n}\left\{\frac{\pi}{x^s\sin(\pi s)}\right\}=(-x)^n,\quad n=0,-1,-2,\cdots

[/tex]

- Warren


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