Insects depend on vortices to keep them aloft

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mechanisms by which insects, particularly bumblebees, utilize vortices for lift and whether similar principles can be applied to man-made devices. Participants explore the implications of insect aerodynamics, the scale of flying machines, and ongoing research in mimicking natural flight.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that traditional aerodynamics struggled to explain bumblebee flight, suggesting that recent research has shed light on the role of vortices.
  • There is a question about the existence of man-made devices that utilize vortices for lift similar to insects, with no clear answers provided.
  • One participant discusses the significance of scale in aerodynamics, indicating that as the characteristic length of a flying body decreases, viscous effects become more important, potentially altering lift mechanisms.
  • Another participant draws a parallel between insect flight and Brownian motion, suggesting that both phenomena are influenced by length scale.
  • Research into mimicking the flight of birds, bats, and insects is acknowledged, though no complete successes are reported.
  • A mention of military funding for micro-air vehicle (MAV) research highlights ongoing efforts in developing small flying machines.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of knowledge about the application of vortex dynamics in man-made devices, with no consensus on whether such devices currently exist or on the specifics of ongoing research.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions touch on the limitations of current understanding regarding the scaling effects in aerodynamics and the complexity of replicating natural flight mechanisms in engineering.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying aerodynamics, robotics, bio-inspired engineering, and micro-air vehicle development.

Gonzolo
"Insects depend on vortices to keep them aloft"

As a kid, I remember learning that aerodynamics couldn't explain how bumblebees flew. Recently (2000), much light was shed on the subject (thread title quoted from link) :

http://www.news.cornell.edu/releases/March00/APS_Wang.hrs.html

My question is : is there presently any man-made device that take advantage of vortices to generate lift, as do hovering bumblebees?

Assuming we are not there, what are the smallest flying machines and how long can they fly?
 
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Gonzolo said:
As a kid, I remember learning that aerodynamics couldn't explain how bumblebees flew. Recently (2000), much light was shed on the subject (thread title quoted from link) :

http://www.news.cornell.edu/releases/March00/APS_Wang.hrs.html

My question is : is there presently any man-made device that take advantage of vortices to generate lift, as do hovering bumblebees?

Assuming we are not there, what are the smallest flying machines and how long can they fly?

Great link, I have looked into it and that's a great source of interesting things. I don't know the answer to any of the two questions. But the only thing I can say is that the fact demonstrates there are some flow phenomenas that depends on the spatial scales. The characteristic length of an insect is of the same order of magnitude of the viscous characteristic lenght. It is not so in the aerodynamics of an aircraft. As you are shortening the characteristic length of the body, viscous effects become progressively important, and the mechanism of lifting will be different. But you can think of the lifting process of an air molecule suspended into the air of a room. Probably his movement is completely governed by the viscosity. So that, I think there is not any lower limit.
 
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The animation is totally wicked. The phenomena is remeniscent of Brownian motion, in that length scale is relevant in both cases. It would be quite interesting to find similitudes and differences in both phenomena, which are from two entirely different fields of knowledge, AFAIK.
 
There is a lot of research into mimicing natural fliers. Birds, Bats, and insects. I do not know of any complete successes, but I do know that if you want more info, then search UAV's (Uncrude Air Vehicles)
 
Funny, I made a google search for "Uncrude Air Vehicles" and it brought me directly to here.
 
The military (or more appropriately DARPA) has been putting a load of money into micro-air vehicle (MAV) research.

A lot of money has been given to the University of Maryland to develop a micro-rotary wing vehicle and synthetic jet actuator controllers.

http://www.aero.umd.edu/research/agrc.html

Enjoy...
 
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