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-   -   Sorting Out Ford V-8 Engines (http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=565010)

average guy Jan4-12 01:00 PM

Sorting Out Ford V-8 Engines
 
being a Mopar person and enjoying the simplicity
of their engine lineup many times i've listened to
a Ford person and walked away shaking my head.
Mopar small blocks: 318 and 340.
273 was early and went bye-bye. 360 was smog 340.
Mopar big blocks: 383 and 440.
Hemi was heads stuck on 440. there, done.
Ready to dive into Fords.
Here's Lincoln Y Block page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_Y-block_V8_engine
not interested in Y blocks but see where they were replaced
in 1958 by MEL and FE engines.
now we're getting someplace!

turbo Jan4-12 02:50 PM

Re: Sorting Out Ford V-8 Engines
 
Ready to dive into Chevy engines? Light pistons and rods turn up in RPM very quickly. One of the great ones was the 327. If you cut 6 cylinders off a 327 and air-cooled it, you essentially have a Harley-Davidson Evo. Gotta add push-rods to eliminate the cams, but the geometry is there.

mender Jan4-12 08:41 PM

Re: Sorting Out Ford V-8 Engines
 
Quote:

Quote by average guy (Post 3695960)
Ready to dive into Fords.

Diving and Y-blocks go together nicely but usually the block is attached to a rope.:wink:

Why a 292 Y-block? There's no reason to use one unless you're doing a restoration. As you've already seen, the ports are small and inefficient and run out of flow at around 4000 rpm and 200 hp.

average guy Jan5-12 12:26 AM

Re: Sorting Out Ford V-8 Engines
 
turbo & mender
let me get back to you about your comments.
here's first step in learning about modern Ford V-8's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_MEL_engine
two lines of engines introduced in 1958.
the MEL and the FE series's.
how do you like plural of series?:smile:

average guy Jan5-12 12:50 AM

Re: Sorting Out Ford V-8 Engines
 
turbo
there was some kind of thing with Traco & Chaparral.
now those are nice Chevy engines!
mender
the 292 is just warmup getting back into things.
it is interesting as all get out though.
you can see things that did become standard practice
and 'we better not do that again in our new engine'.
just about every assembly i get to while disassembling
it is interesting.
i'll probably have to abandon engine & tranny because they're waay too heavy!
meantime it's big fun!:)

average guy Jan5-12 12:32 PM

Re: Sorting Out Ford V-8 Engines
 
the MEL engines can make you a Ford engine expert.
there's only 4 to remember, but you better write what
years they were made and carry it with you.
plus they had cool names. how can anybody say no
to a 'Super Marauder'?
the displacements were 383, 410, 430 and 462.
they had larger crank and rod journals than the FE and
shared most of the casting and machining.
the FE and what replaced the MEL engines the 385 engines
are more familiar to most car enthusiasts.

Have A Nice Day!

average guy Jan9-12 12:33 AM

Re: Sorting Out Ford V-8 Engines
 
this series came out in 1958.
there was a Generation I & II.
Generation I included the 332, 352, 361 Edsel, 360 Truck ( F100 pickups not the FT line of engines. )
& 390.
Generation II had the 406, 410, 427 and 427 SOHC "Cammer", 428 with it's Hipo
428 Cobra Jet and Super Cobra Jet versions.
that's it for FE.
wondering where the 289 and 429 are?
well stay tuned!

HowlerMonkey Jan9-12 11:48 AM

Re: Sorting Out Ford V-8 Engines
 
http://www.finecars.cc/typo3temp/GB/0354e22eb4.jpg

average guy Jan9-12 11:04 PM

Re: Sorting Out Ford V-8 Engines
 
howler monkey
nice picture of Super Marauder engine.
now we get to Windsor Engines.
'Introduced in 1962 as part of Ford's "Total Performance" era,the Ford Windsor design succeeded the Ford Y-block engine family, rendering the latter obsolete for performance purposes.-Wikipedia
the displacements were 221, 260, 289, 302 and 351.
the 221 was 'oversquare' the bore was larger than the stroke.with the bore getting bigger in
the 260 and 289 it just got more so.
if you're a big believer in this as a speed secret then this is the engine for you!
there were some major head differences in this series from wedge chambers to canted valves.
up next, the 385 series with the 429!

average guy Jan12-12 03:27 PM

Re: Sorting Out Ford V-8 Engines
 
the 385 series engine were made from '68 until '97.
they were Ford's last big block engine.
they replaced the MEL but they kept making FE's.
it came in 3 sizes 370 for trucks and 429 and 460 for everything else.
there was a Cobra Jet and Super Cobra Jet version of 429 but not 460.
a 460 is a good foundation for a racing engine if you find one that's had an easy life.
next up is the last of these cast iron engine series the 335.
there a couple of hard left turns in the 335 section so be prepared!

Have A Nice Day!

average guy Jan13-12 07:01 PM

Re: Sorting Out Ford V-8 Engines
 
here's the last one. the 335 series made from 1970 to 1985.
has 2 engine sizes 351 and 400 so it should be simple, right? no.
these were called the Cleveland's and this 351 differed from
the Windsor in two ways, one of them being cast in timing cover.
from my experience with weight of a Y block engine, no cast in
timing cover for me, thank you.
the 351 had nice heads but the oiling system was suspect.
the 400 and the 351 later M version ( STILL a 335 engine! )
are as they say in school ' suggested reading'.
that's it for Ford cast iron V8's.
if you're going to pick one to modify, it's a good idea to
get familiar with them before you get it on the engine stand.

Have A Nice Day!

Fahlin Racing Jan14-12 08:19 AM

Re: Sorting Out Ford V-8 Engines
 
What are we trying to accomplish here, just looking at the families of Ford?

Mopar engines you spoke of are known as the LA series 273, 318, 340 and 360 (up to TBI) Mopar also has the A series (before LA) which also one of the engines displaces 318ci as well. Then we have the Magnum series which also has a 318ci. Although the 360ci was not around in the A series days.

The big block mopars you have B series and you have RB series. B being a standard deck height pretty much housing the 350 (short lived), 361, 383 and 400. Going to the RB or raised block we have the 413, 426 hemi, 426 wedge and 440. The 426 came before the 440. When the big daddy 440 debuted the 426 hemi was already 2 years old. If you have a 426 wedge, it wont drop into place of the hemi because of the different position of the engine mounts.

Then you have the early hemi engines from Chrysler, Dodge, Desoto and polyspherical engines.

Fords, there are many displacements in just one family as you already know. We have the y-blocks, FE series, FT series, Windsor, 335 series, 385 series, MEL series, flatheads, Super Duty industrial mills and the newest modulars. Some have already been mentioned.
FE series displacements 332, 352, 360, 390, 406, 410, 427 and 428
FT series displacements 330, 332, 359, 361, 389, 391

The wicked SOHC 427 is a full hemi-chambered engine. With a 7foot long timming chain, there is nothing like it. I cant remember if it was NHRA whom banned it from competition or not.

The external appearance of FE vs the FT is the same. I would tell you how to tell the difference between these two, but its somewhere in my notes. The INTERNALS are different. FT is a truck specific engine. Both of these engines have an extended skirt at the bottom end. There is a block called the 'side oiler' which a version of the 427 uses, its not like the regular oil gallery that lead straight up to the cam and go from there.

MEL series Mercury, Edsel, Lincoln. These engines are their own breed.The heads I believe will work on the 385 series engines. Not sure it anything needs to be adjusted or not.
MEL displacements 383, 410, 430 and 462

Y-block displacements 239, 256, 272, 292, 312 This engine utilized block skirts.

Windsor series displacements 221, 255, 260, 289, 302, 351ci
The earlier windsors, or maybe 289 and below I believe the headbolt diameter is smaller so if you were to install 351W heads on a 289ci you will need a sleeve to make up the space around the headbolt in order to not allow the head to shift.

Now we have what is known as the BOSS 302. This engine uses the heads that the 351 4V cleveland has in a basic sense. The coolant ports from the head to the block are different from the basic 4V 351 Cleveland though. These engine parts will not work on a basic 302.

335 Series displacements 351C, 351M (Modified) and 400. The heads from the 351M and 400 will work on the 351C, but the block height of the 400 and 351M is taller than the 351C. The 351M & 400 was steered more for the truck and large car. The 351C engine had 2 styles of heads, the 2v meaning 2 Venturi carb and 4V meaning 4 venturi carb. You can ID these heads by looking at the corners by the valve cover rail. Look for a 2 or 4. As you stated, the oil system has a bit of a problem. I want to say this engine fed the heads more than having an equal oil distribution, but i could be wrong

385 series displacements, the big daddy Ford as I call it. 370 (industrial only), 429 & 460 started in 1968 the 460 went to the Lincolns until 1973 came, then was installed in 1tons too until 1997, 1999 for industrial apps. 429 went into Ford's cars, although ended in 1972 due to emissions reasons. These engines shared the same bore 4.360". If you think about it, thats the biggest cylinder bore produced for a mass produced engine. Cadillac's 500 had a 4.300" bore, Chevy 454 had 4.250" and the 440 Mopar had 4.320" even with the newer Chevy 8.1L the bore is still 4.250". The block the 460 used in the 1960s and 70s switched castings a couple times, in 1979 Ford changed the 460s to a externlly balanced engine from an internally. The heads will work up until 1986. 1987 the engine became EFI and the whole top end changed. Head design changed on the intake side and exhaust side of the heads. 1999 is the last recorded year I have found to be in use. Now you also have to realize the 429 and 460 were used in industrial applications too which entails different casting designs. The heads changed too, the one being a real dog is I believe the D2 head throughout the course of this engine family.

The 429 Boss is its own beast just like the 302 Boss. Rotated & Canted valves. Not quite a full-hemi, but considered as the semi-hemi. These parts do not interchange.

Super Duty (industrial only) displacements 401 and 534ci.

Flatheads or side-valve displacements 136, 221, 255, plus 239 and 337 according to Wikipedia. If you are dealing with the 221 you must watch for the different amount of headbolts because each amount of headbolts retaining the heads. If I remember right, the least is 17 and moves up until about 24 bolts per head. Each having different amount of horsepower being produced. I want to say there are more flatheads out there, but I am not too sure. I will have to look into my library again to see if I missed anything as far as displacements.

Among other basic things such as valve cover bolts to help ID what you have along with engines using shaft mounted rockers and pedestal mounted rockers. There are numerous things out there about Fords and their differences between engine families. Remember at the bottom end you oil pan changes from app to app from different k-member positions which changes your pan and your oil pickup system.

Hope this helps!

average guy Jan15-12 12:32 AM

Re: Sorting Out Ford V-8 Engines
 
fahlin
what do they call Ford's version of Direct Connection now exactly?
what books do they put out?
i recommend anybody considering a Ford motor go
to a machine shop and look at blocks, heads, cranks and
what not and see if they get stoked with that version.
parts that are all bead blasted and nice looking so they
can see exactly what's going on.

Have A Nice Day!

Fahlin Racing Jan15-12 07:51 AM

Re: Sorting Out Ford V-8 Engines
 
There is SVT, Special Vehicle Team. I want to say it used to be SVO, Special Vehicle Operations but I never kept up with these labels too much. As far as parts, I think its just Ford performance or racing.

mender Jan15-12 03:27 PM

Re: Sorting Out Ford V-8 Engines
 
Ford Racing Performance Parts; got the catalog on my desk.

SA Design has lots of books:
http://www.cartechbooks.com/catalogs...result/?q=ford

average guy Jan15-12 05:24 PM

Re: Sorting Out Ford V-8 Engines
 
1 Attachment(s)
fahlin & mender
Chrysler puts out the books for their engine.
i don't know if GM does.
here's a Mopar book from Chrysler.
don't get too excited, it's not currently available from Mancini Racing.
point is they will go on the record saying what will work.
if Ford just sits on the sidelines i'd go with Chrysler or GM.
you definitely need a GOOD PLAN, or you'll end up with
something that's just not making power like it should.

Have A Nice Day!

average guy Jan16-12 10:43 PM

Re: Sorting Out Ford V-8 Engines
 
1 Attachment(s)
GM Performance does put out books.
so there in the race with Chrysler.
Ford is a no show. they may have put them
out at one time.
here's GM's all round book the Performance Guide.
plus there's more to building a fast car than the engine.
that's where the fun starts.:smile:

Have A Nice Day!

Fahlin Racing Jan20-12 06:46 PM

Re: Sorting Out Ford V-8 Engines
 
Ford has a Ford V8 Performance 'Stocker's Bible' by Engineer Bill Carroll. It has OEM specs for heads, cams etc. I am not sure its for aftermarket parts though. You have to remember Ford does not do the exact SB or BB type of engines like the others. Which means there is more than one person whom has mastered each engine family. For instance Barney Navarro did with the flatheads or Barry Robotnick is known for some wicked FE engines. I don't think one person could master every engine family Ford has and will design.


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