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-   -   Arguments that blievers use in god discussions (http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=68502)

<<<GUILLE>>> Mar24-05 04:14 AM

Arguments that blievers use in god discussions
 
I have many religious friends wich I discuss with about god. Their' problem is that the arguments they use are nonesense:
ex.

And how come most of the people in the world believe in god and only some dont?

I call it the "mayority factor". But then is when I say "also most of the people voted for Zapatero (the actual president here, in spain) last year, and that doesn't mean that they were correct." You cna use any other stupid mayority factor, maybe ones of your countries.


Have any one else heard stupid or illogic arguments?

skeletonic Mar27-05 05:31 PM

well i am a border line non believer who dosent liek all the dum religious lables. why do i have to be atheist? its not that i dnt believe in god, i just dont belive in the word god. just because somethin can come and float arround on a glowing puffy cloud, that dont mean it is a "god" as we have made the term mean. rumors are almost the same as lies. how can i believe any of that crap that is pushed on me from 10 different religious foundations? how can there be so many diff gods? well it is sipmle to answer. there is no god. there may be some advanced being, but that dont make it a god unless it is trying to take advantage of some lesser being. 2005 years ad and there is still the idea that here are angels and heven and hell. maby some people need dumb religions to believe in to help make their drab lifestyle a little more supernatureral, but not me. the universe is already complicated enough without a bunch of leecherous religions trying to sway my mind into trusting in the "lord all might". the one thing i belive is somthing i read along time ago. the jist of it was that if you really need somthing, you have to believe that you can ask and recieve. that may sound like some sort of divine intervention, but i dont think so. i think it is all in the mind, will power. if you believe in somthing strong enough you will unwittingly make it happen. there are things about our mind that noone even knows about. i belive in the inner "god" that is in all of us. i dont want to put a demeaning name to it, it is not a religion. it follows along the line of if you want help you must help yourself.

<<<GUILLE>>> Mar28-05 11:57 AM

people are too simple, and when something happens, instead of trying to explain it, they go to the simplest way: it was god. People need a "center" in their lifes, they need something in which to believe so that they can be "secure". There is only one thing in which I agree with comunism: "religion is the opium of humanity". And with religion, god goes as well.

Fliption Mar28-05 04:17 PM

Quote:

Quote by <<<GUILLE>>>
Have any one else heard stupid or illogic arguments?

Yes, this thread is littered with them :biggrin: . Have you ever believed in any particular religion? Have you researched the true meanings of the various religions? Or have you just extrapolated the "nonsense" from your friends onto the whole world?

I believe that religion is what people use to fill the gap that science/physicalism leaves for them. This is why religion changes as our understanding changes. But it can be argued that physicalism cannot close all knowledge gaps. So the reason so many people believe in religion is because they intuitively know that there must be something more to explain reality. The line that they draw between religion and science has moved all over the place through the course of human history, but they know it must be drawn somewhere.

So while I might think certain religions are nonsensical and that the "line has been drawn" incorrectly. I cannot criticize the act of drawing the line to begin with. I've got a pencil with a very big eraser in my hand as we speak!

Mazuz Mar28-05 05:29 PM

I have not found religion to bear any actual connection to our observed reality, nor have I noticed religion to change as the details of our physical understanding of the world emerge. As far as arguing that the physical world cannot give us a complete description of nature.. it should be said that in the same way "anything" can be argued. You are right about people holding strong beliefs according to what they know intuitively, I have known many people with different intuitive beliefs and I like to point out that what one person intuitively knows is often completely contradictory to what another person intuitively knows. Also, believing there must be something more to reality isn't a reason to believe a baseless explanation provided by a religion.

Mazuz Mar28-05 05:31 PM

On the subject of God.. we are all creations of outside forces. No one is creating themselves. We don't beat own hearts, or grow own hair, a force or forces outside of ourselves does. In this sense there is undeniably a higher power, the forces creating us. A scientist might say we are creations of the universe, a religious person might say we are creations of God. The reason we can't agree on the term God for describing the reality which creates us is because so many people extend the concept to include some cosmic personality with an agenda. And of course people use the knowledge that they KNOW there are outside forces creating them to be certain that it therefore must be this God, or that God.

Fliption Mar28-05 11:08 PM

Quote:

Quote by Mazuz
I have not found religion to bear any actual connection to our observed reality, nor have I noticed religion to change as the details of our physical understanding of the world emerge.

Well you wouldn't notice the change if you haven't been alive since the beginning of man. But a study of religion would show you that the religion of today is very different and much more a reflection of todays times than say a tribe of people worshiping sun, moon and rain gods thousands of years ago.

Quote:

As far as arguing that the physical world cannot give us a complete description of nature.. it should be said that in the same way "anything" can be argued.
Perhaps, but not very well. When I say that it can be argued, I mean that it can be argued "well".

Quote:

You are right about people holding strong beliefs according to what they know intuitively, I have known many people with different intuitive beliefs and I like to point out that what one person intuitively knows is often completely contradictory to what another person intuitively knows.
I am making a claim that there is something intuitive all these people have in common. The details of their religions are different, yes. But they all think there is something beyond what is termed "physicalism" here in the philosophy forum.

Quote:

Also, believing there must be something more to reality isn't a reason to believe a baseless explanation provided by a religion.

Exactly. Which is why I don't do this and also why I have a giant eraser on the end of my pencil.


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