What is the intuitive meaning of the Mean Value Theorem?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the intuitive meaning of the Mean Value Theorem (MVT) in calculus, exploring its definition, implications, and geometric interpretations. Participants engage with the theorem's relationship to derivatives and average rates of change, as well as its significance in understanding functions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express confusion about the redundancy of the MVT's definition, questioning how it relates to the concept of a derivative.
  • Others clarify that the MVT indicates the existence of a point where the derivative equals the average rate of change over the interval, represented by the slope of the secant line.
  • A participant emphasizes the geometric interpretation of the theorem, stating that it implies the existence of a point where the tangent line is parallel to the secant line connecting two endpoints.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of the MVT for understanding constant functions and the necessity of continuity at endpoints, with an example provided to illustrate a potential failure of the theorem without this condition.
  • Some participants suggest that visualizing the theorem through diagrams may aid in understanding its implications and intuitive meaning.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the basic premise of the MVT and its geometric interpretation, but there is ongoing confusion and debate regarding its implications and the clarity of its definition. No consensus is reached on the intuitive understanding of the theorem.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight the importance of continuity at the endpoints for the MVT to hold, and there are references to specific examples that illustrate potential pitfalls in understanding the theorem. The discussion reflects varying levels of familiarity with the concepts involved.

semidevil
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so by the defn:

suppose that f is continuous on a closed I:= [a,b] and that f has a derivative in the open interval (a,b). then tehre exists at least one point c in (a,b) st f(b) - f(a) = f'(c)(b - a).


ok, so what if I put this in terms of f'(c)? isn't that the definition of the derivative?

So it's saying that if f has a derivative in (a,b), then there is a point c that has a derivative?

I"m kind of lost...because this sounds a bit redundant.

I"m kind of having trouble on what the mean value theorem is telling me...
 
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Yes that's another way to define the derivative. The Theorem is saying that if f(x) has a derivative in (a,b), then there is a number c in (a,b) such that is derivative is equal to what you saw.

If you look up Rolle Theorem you might understand more the importance of the mean value theorem.
 
Starting with the equation:

f(b) - f(a) = f'(c)(b - a)

and dividing by (b - a) gives

f'(c) = [f(b)-f(a)]/(b - a)

Can you see what that fraction on the right hand side is?
 
semidevil said:
so by the defn:

suppose that f is continuous on a closed I:= [a,b] and that f has a derivative in the open interval (a,b). then tehre exists at least one point c in (a,b) st f(b) - f(a) = f'(c)(b - a).


ok, so what if I put this in terms of f'(c)? isn't that the definition of the derivative?

So it's saying that if f has a derivative in (a,b), then there is a point c that has a derivative?

I"m kind of lost...because this sounds a bit redundant.

I"m kind of having trouble on what the mean value theorem is telling me...

No, that's NOT the definition of the derivative: (f(b)-f(a))/(b-a) is the slope of the straight line from (a,f(a)) to (b,f(b)) a secant line rather than a tangent line. The derivative requires a limit.

Geometrically what the mean value theorem says is that if f(x) is differentiable between a and b and continuous (from the left and right) at a and b, then there exist some point between a and b where the tangent line is parallel to the the straight line between a and b. The reason for the name "mean value" theorem is that (f(b)-f(a))/(b-a) is a sort of "average" ("mean") value of the derivative at all points between a and b- and the mean value theorem says that there is some point where the actual derivative is the same as the average derivative.

The mean value theorem is crucial in dealing with "anti-derivatives". You know that many functions have the same derivative: f(x)= 4, g(x)= 1000 both have the same derivative: 0; f(x)= x2+ 10 and g(x)= x2+ 100000 both have the same derivative: 2x. Of course, they differ by a constant and the derivative of a constant is 0 (from the basic definition). But how do we know there are not other, perhaps extremely complicated functions that also have that derivative? How do we know that there are not other, perhaps extremely complicated functions that have derivative 0 for all x? From the mean-value theorem. If f'(x)= 0 for all x, then for any a, b,
f(b)-f(a)= f'(c)(b-a)= 0(b-a)= 0. In other words, f(a)= f(b) for any a and b: f is a constant.

As a reminder that f(x) continuous at the endpoints is necessary, consider
f(x)= 2x if x< 3, f(x)= 100 if x>= 3. f is differentiable between 0 and 3 and its derivative there is 2. If f(3)- f(0)= 2(3-0)?
 
semidevil said:
I"m kind of having trouble on what the mean value theorem is telling me...

Drawing a picture may help. If you draw a straight line from (a,f(a)) to (b,f(b)), then the mean value theorem says that there is a point in (a,b) such that its tangent is parallel to that line.
In other words: There is some point at which the rate of change equals the average change.
Intuitively this is clear. It says for example that if a car has traveled 180 km in 2 hours, there must have been a point where it went 90 km/h.

Or, if two runners have a race and start and finish at the same time, then there must've been a point where their speed where equal.
 

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