Is False Equivalent to Not True in Quantum Mechanics?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between the concepts of "false" and "not true" in the context of quantum mechanics, particularly focusing on the nature of statements and their truth values. Participants explore the implications of these concepts on the classification of electrons as particles or waves, and the philosophical underpinnings of truth in quantum mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether "not true" is equivalent to "false," suggesting that false may represent a more definitive state.
  • There is a discussion about the law of excluded middle, with some asserting that a statement must be either true or false to be considered a statement.
  • Participants debate the classification of electrons, with some asserting that an electron can be both a particle and exhibit wave-like properties, while others argue for a more exclusive definition.
  • One participant references Feynman's statement that an electron is "like neither" a particle nor a wave, prompting further exploration of definitions.
  • Some participants emphasize that the wavefunction of an electron is distinct from the electron itself, suggesting that wave-like behavior emerges in certain contexts, such as in the two-slit experiment.
  • There is a call for examples that illustrate when an electron behaves as a particle versus when it exhibits wave-like properties, indicating a desire for clarity in the definitions and examples used.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the equivalence of "false" and "not true," as well as the classification of electrons. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives on the nature of truth in quantum mechanics and the behavior of electrons.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the need for clear definitions when discussing the concepts of particles and waves, indicating that the discussion may depend on how these terms are defined. There are also unresolved questions regarding the implications of self-referential statements and their validity.

sridhar_n
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If False the same as Not true?

Undoubtendly, this is a question in Quantum Mechanics which was why I put it up here and not a Philosophical Question though it may sound like one...


Sridhar
 
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do you have any reason to believe otherwise.
we even have the notation for it.

p-truth
~p- not truth- false.
 
...

I was just thinking if not true does not completely coincide with false. False is a "perfect" statement isn't it? Which means u are totally avoiding it.

Sridhar
 
It is well known that p ≡ ~(~p). Though what has this got to do with quantum mechanics?
 
Also I should add that a statement is only a statement if it can either be false or true, it is not a statement if it is not either (law of excluded middle)
 
Last edited:
so the statement "im a liar" isn't a statement?
 
...

Can u give me a statement on whether an electron is a particle or a wave. You shoudn't say both...

Sridhar
 
Originally posted by loop quantum gravity
so the statement "im a liar" isn't a statement?

No, because it can be true or false without contradiction. However a statemnt should not reference itself i.e.: "this statemnet is false".
 


Originally posted by sridhar_n
Can u give me a statement on whether an electron is a particle or a wave. You shoudn't say both...

Sridhar

p: An electron is a particle

is true

q: An electron exhibit wavelike properties

is also true
 
  • #10
Haven't u read abt Feynman's Statement about an Electron on whether it is a particle/wave "It is like neither"


Sridhar
 
  • #11
Originally posted by sridhar_n
Haven't u read abt Feynman's Statement about an Electron on whether it is a particle/wave "It is like neither"


Sridhar

It depends on how you define the concepts of particles and waves, an electron is classified as a particle.
 
  • #12
What Feynman was really talking about were the classical concepts of 'wave' and 'particle', which we know the electron does not follow.
 
  • #13
However the statement is Equivalent...
 
  • #14
Originally posted by sridhar_n
However the statement is Equivalent...

equivalent to whatm (also note that the wavefunction of an electron is not the same thing as the electron)? Basically: firstly you need to define the parameters of membership for the set of all particles and the set of all waves; depending on how you define these sets you might find that the electron is an element in both, one or neither. If you decide to define them as mutually exclusive yet you find that the elctron should be a member of both, there is a flaw in your definition, not in logic.
 
  • #15
also note that the wavefunction of an electron is not the same thing as the electron

Agreed.. but, the wave packet explanation of an electron obeys both the wave and particle properties.

What do u have to say abt this?

Sridhar
 
  • #16
Originally posted by sridhar_n
Agreed.. but, the wave packet explanation of an electron obeys both the wave and particle properties.

What do u have to say abt this?

Sridhar

You can't really call a single elctron a wave but wave-like behviour is certainlyu exhibited over many elctrons as a result of the wavefunction.
 
  • #17


Originally posted by jcsd
p: An electron is a particle

is true

q: An electron exhibit wavelike properties

is also true


Show me the truth?..When is a Particle TRUELY like an Electron

When are the properties of an Electron Wavelike?
 
  • #18


Originally posted by ranyart
Show me the truth?..When is a Particle TRUELY like an Electron

When are the properties of an Electron Wavelike?

An electron is always an electron, but it does show some wavelike propetires for example it's distribution in the two-slit experiment.
 
  • #19


Originally posted by jcsd
An electron is always an electron, but it does show some wavelike propetires for example it's distribution in the two-slit experiment.

Give me an Example of Electron being a true Electron 'Particle'.

Now give me the same Electron in the same configuration, showing me its 'Wavelike' properties.
 
  • #20
Originally posted by jcsd
If you decide to define them as mutually exclusive yet you find that the elctron should be a member of both, there is a flaw in your definition, not in logic.
Well said. They seem to be ignoring this.
 

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