Can Historical Movies Accurately Portray the Past?

[Lisa!]

Is it possible to review some of movies which concerns a particular period of history? I mean we can discuss art and history at the same time. Talking about the movie itself and the historical facts. And how much the movie was successful in telling the facts! I think "A man for all seasons" which is made by Fred Zineman could be a good example. I also like discussing Oliver Stone's documentaries.

 

[matthyaouw]

Troy- S**t
The Oddysey- S**t

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

Anyone seen Downfall?

 

[EnumaElish]

Anyone seen King Arthur? What did you think of it?

 

[EnumaElish]

Anyone seen Downfall?

I did. Outstanding performances. I thought the portraying of "Hitler as human" was striking. "Hitler/Nazis were monsters" is a myth; they were all too human. Anyone may have a Hitler or Goedel lurking just beneath their socially visible contours, "waiting" for the "right circumstances" to "take over."

 

[honestrosewater]

Anyone seen King Arthur? What did you think of it?

Clive Owen is HAwWwWT! :!) Sorry, that's about all I was thinking.

I'm not familiar with the usual Guinevere character, but I suspected that they made her more aggressive and macho and gave her a more prominent role to, you know, make her more like a 'modern woman'. Was she like that in the traditional story?

 

[arildno]

Clive Owen is HAwWwWT! :!)

Nope; he's just a scare-Crowe.

Sorry, that's about all I was thinking.

Was there anything else of worth with the movie??
We just had a general election in Norway, and the parties had basically the same politics, I voted for the party with the cutest candidate.
I find that to be a perfectly rational attitude.

I'm not familiar with the usual Guinevere character, but I suspected that they made her more aggressive and macho and gave her a more prominent role to, you know, make her more like a 'modern woman'. Was she like that in the traditional story?

Guinevere, or Gwenwhyfar, is originally some Celtic goddess incorporated in the Arthurian legends, just like Morgana le Fay is.

 

[honestrosewater]

Was there anything else of worth with the movie??

Yeah, it was entertaining and well done all-around. I've been meaning to see it again, in fact. I remember the fighting and battles being powerful. It seemed realistic - a 'what if the legends were true' kind of thing. Or perhaps there's reason to think that the legends are true. I don't know.

 

[arildno]

I never bother to see either "King Arthur" or "Alexander". Guess my tolerance of "epic movies" plummeted after watching "Troy"

 

[EnumaElish]

Anyone may have a Hitler or Goedel lurking just beneath their socially visible contours, "waiting" for the "right circumstances" to "take over."

Sorry I meant (Joseph) Goebbels not (Kurt) Goedel. Who, BTW was a mathematician wasn't he? OTOH, far better to have a Goedel lurk inside of you than a Goebbels.

 

[arildno]

Sorry I meant Goebbels (sp?) not Goedel. Who, BTW was a mathematician wasn't he? OTOH, far better to have a Goedel lurk inside of you than a Goebbels.

Since Goedel went mad I'm not too sure.
On the other hand, women seemed to flock around him, so having Goedel quirks might be desirable for some of the PF'ers..

 

[TRCSF]

Anyone seen Downfall?

Yes, it was excellent. I highly recommend it to anybody- especially people interested in historical movies.

 

[EnumaElish]

Since Goedel went mad I'm not too sure.
On the other hand, women seemed to flock around him, so having Goedel quirks might be desirable for some of the PF'ers..

Hm... A genius/crazy mathematician with middle-class background who was a ladies' man, versus a devoted husband and father with a working-class background who became the Nazi propaganda minister, and ended up with murdering his family before committing suicide?

 

[TRCSF]

Hm... A genius/crazy mathematician with middle-class background who was a ladies' man, versus a devoted husband and father with a working-class background who became the Nazi propaganda minister, and ended up with murdering his family before committing suicide?

That's not marketable. Have his family murdered by communist robots from the future; then you've got yourself a movie.

 

[loseyourname]

Clive Owen is HAwWwWT! :!) Sorry, that's about all I was thinking.

I'm not familiar with the usual Guinevere character, but I suspected that they made her more aggressive and macho and gave her a more prominent role to, you know, make her more like a 'modern woman'. Was she like that in the traditional story?

Which traditional story? There are at least several hundred existing verions of Arthurian legends, not all of which are consistent with one another. In some of the earliest incarnations that included Guinevere, she is portrayed as having a very good amount of sway, sometimes even more than Arthur, but she's very ladylike and genteel. As time went on and kings became more and more powerful, eventually the legend evolved into the familiar 'all-powerful Arthur' story.

 

[selfAdjoint]

I seem to remember her as pretty passive in Malory's Morte d'Arthur, probably the main high medieval retelling of the story. Of course you can have Camelot or T.H. White's magnificent version - I think The Ill-Made Knight is the one for Lancelot and Guenevire.

 

[honestrosewater]

Okay, I don't know much about the stories. Are there Irish stories of Arthur? Do they have a different take on things?

 

[Pengwuino]

Anyone seen King Arthur? What did you think of it?

Cool movie

BS historically.

 

[Pengwuino]

I never bother to see either "King Arthur" or "Alexander". Guess my tolerance of "epic movies" plummeted after watching "Troy"

I didn't see troy so I think I don't have the disease

 

[Lisa!]

Is it a movie review?

 

[loseyourname]

Okay, I don't know much about the stories. Are there Irish stories of Arthur? Do they have a different take on things?

There are a lot of elements from Welsh tradition incorporated into the legends.

As far as Morte d'Arthur, that is actually a fairly late incarnation of the legend, really a compilation, almost an encyclopedia of Arthurian tales. If we go back to some of the original French poems (which were themselves based on much older oral traditions), by Chrétien de Troyes especially, we see a much more influential and powerful Guinevere. Frankly, we see a rather impotent Arthur, too, particularly in Lancelot.

 

[selfAdjoint]

The real question is, is Arthur historical. The legends are just fairy stories, but is there a historical reality behind them?

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

The real question is, is Arthur historical. The legends are just fairy stories, but is there a historical reality behind them?

That was the point of the film, no? The 'legend' is a cobbling together or threads of historical truth, earlier mythic themes and poetic license. The film was [if you believe the hype] an attempt to put the story in a likely historical context. The question isn't whether it is historically accurate - it's a hypothesis. The question is: is it sh1te? UK reviews erred on the side of; "God, yes!"

 

[selfAdjoint]

I'm going to start a separate thread on the Arthur question, I think it deserves it. There are many modern theories and some suggestive evidence that it will be fun to discuss.

 

[Pengwuino]

The real question is, is Arthur historical. The legends are just fairy stories, but is there a historical reality behind them?

I heard even the non-contested historic details involved in the movie were screwed up too

 

[Gokul43201]

Okay, I don't know much about the stories. Are there Irish stories of Arthur? Do they have a different take on things?

Chrétien's primary source for his grail-related romances were Celtic legends, notable among these is the Irish legend of Conn (or Conne ?) who won the "golden cup" from some Goddess.

 

[Lisa!]

I'm going to start a separate thread on the Arthur question, I think it deserves it. There are many modern theories and some suggestive evidence that it will be fun to discuss.

Good.I think it is better. If we want to discuss all the ovies in 1 thread, it makes a mess. No one would know what movie we're talking about.