Could Atomically Fine Metal Dust Revolutionize Hydraulic Pressing Techniques?

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    Atomic Dust
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of creating atomically fine metal dust through the vaporization of metals using high-powered lasers in a vacuum. Participants explore the potential applications of this technique in hydraulic pressing and the properties of the resulting materials. The conversation touches on related processes and challenges in the field of nanoparticle manufacturing.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes the idea of vaporizing metal in a vacuum to create atomically fine dust particles and questions the existence of research in this area.
  • Another participant compares the proposed method to vacuum vapor deposition, citing its use in telescope mirror production.
  • A participant raises concerns about the feasibility of the process, noting that the fast-moving atoms may not settle as intended and could impact the chamber walls instead.
  • Another participant suggests that using a partial vacuum with noble gases might help cool the metal particles effectively, indicating that the outcome may be more about particles than individual atoms.
  • There are mentions of ongoing research in metal vaporization and nanoparticle manufacturing at institutions like Penn State and various DOE Labs, although this is presented as speculation.
  • A participant discusses the applications of physical vapor deposition (PVD) techniques in powder metallurgy, emphasizing their utility in creating metal mixtures for pressing and sintering.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the feasibility and methodology of creating atomically fine metal dust. While some acknowledge the potential of the concept, others highlight significant challenges and uncertainties surrounding the process.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations related to the behavior of metal vapor in a vacuum and the potential need for alternative environments to achieve the desired results. There is also uncertainty regarding the specific research efforts and techniques being employed in related fields.

Intuitive
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I wanted to do some research on Atomic dust.

The process would take a metal and vaporize it by a high powered LASER in a vacuum and then allow the metal vapor to cool in the vacuum an then fall to the bottem of the chamber as Atomically fine dust particles of the metal.

Is there any research out there that is attemting the study of this?

The only thing I have researched so far that's even close to this is the making of nanotubes with Carbon from vaporization techniques.

I wanted to see if Atomically fine metal dust could be Hydrolically pressed with materials that have lower melting points on an Atomically even mixture ratio and it's properties, Possibly making some odd dielectrics.
 
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Intuitive said:
I wanted to do some research on Atomic dust.

The process would take a metal and vaporize it by a high powered LASER in a vacuum and then allow the metal vapor to cool in the vacuum an then fall to the bottem of the chamber as Atomically fine dust particles of the metal.

Is there any research out there that is attemting the study of this?

Intuitive,

Sounds an awful lot like vacuum vapor deposition to me.

For example, when the mirror of a big telescope needs to be replaced - they put it in
a vacuum chamber and vaporize aluminum in the chamber. As the chamber is cooled,
the aluminum vapor "plates out" on all the interior surfaces including the mirror.

Dr. Gregory Greenman
Physicist
 
You will have trouble with this. The atoms move way to fast to fall and they
will end up hitting the walls like little bullets.
 
I do see a problem trying to vaporize in a vacuum. As Morbius points out, the vapor simply plates out on the nearest cold surface.

On the other hand, possibly doing this in a partial vacuum with a noble gas like Xe or Kr might help cool the metal particles, and it will probably be particles rather than atoms.

There are various folks doing metal vaporization and nanoparticle manufacturing. Penn State has some folks doing physical vapor deposition using electron beam heating, and I am quite sure there are many more folks doing this too. NASA Glenn is a possibility, and so are the DOE Labs like Argonne, Oak Ridge, and perhaps Los Alamos and Livermore - but I am just speculating.

There is a trade group that does powder metallurgy, and I would expect they use PVD techniques. Most applications involve pressing metal and mechanically-blended alloy mixtures in power form to near net shape and then sintering. This approach is particularly useful for refractory metals and alloys which are extremely difficult to machine.
 
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