Can White Holes Challenge the Second Law of Thermodynamics?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the theoretical existence of white holes and their potential implications for the second law of thermodynamics. Participants explore the nature of these entities and their relationship to established physical laws, particularly in the context of closed and open systems.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the applicability of the second law of thermodynamics to systems that may involve white holes and wormholes, suggesting that these entities could connect closed systems to external influences.
  • One participant references Ilya Prigogine's ideas, implying that the laws of thermodynamics might not hold in scenarios involving such exotic spacetime structures.
  • Another participant raises the point that the theoretical formulation of wormholes does not inherently violate the laws of physics.
  • A link is provided to a theory suggesting that a black hole could be paired with a white hole in another universe, with the black hole absorbing matter and the white hole ejecting it, though the feasibility of this concept remains uncertain.
  • One participant argues that a black hole cannot release infalling material without creating contradictions in the spatial representation of that material, likening it to a significant violation of physical principles.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of white holes for the second law of thermodynamics, with no consensus reached on whether these entities could challenge established physical laws.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the speculative nature of white holes and wormholes, as well as the dependence on definitions of closed and open systems in thermodynamics. The discussion does not resolve the theoretical viability of these concepts.

flotsam
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Does anyone on this forum give credence to the possible existence of 'white holes' and the possibility that they violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics?
I know that most people (if not all) will say the 2nd law can never be violated.
 
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I don't quite understand questions like this concerning bizarre spacetime entities like wormholes and white holes- it is my understanding that the laws of thermodynamics apply to closed physical systems- but if one is positing entities which causally connect a physical system with systems outside that closed set [outside the light-cone of a physical system being observed]- then these laws simply no longer apply to the system in question becasue it is no longer closed
right?

I think this was sort of the idea that Ilya Prigogine tried to express
 
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Well doesn't the theoretical form of wormholes not violate the laws of physics?
 
Here is an interesting link http://casa.colorado.edu/~ajsh/schww.html

I think its a interesting theory. The postulation that a black hole could have a white-hole partner in another universe linked by a worm hole is curious. The black hole sucks matter in and at the other end the white hole spews it out.
But of course nobody knows whether this is even theoretically possible.
 
A black hole cannot spew out infalling material without that material appearing in two different spaces at the same time. This would be the physics equivalent of a felony murder
 

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