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Stigmata

by Ivan Seeking
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Ivan Seeking
#1
Dec28-04, 02:11 AM
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An Unusual Case of Stigmatization

Abstract ó The case presented is a several-month study of the stigmatization of a 70-year old woman, Anna Maria T. Stigmatization, the spontaneous appearance on a personís body of Christís wounds on the Cross, is a wellknown phenomenon among Catholics, while in this century it has also appeared in Protestants.

...The author made a study of the form, dimensions, localization and anatomo-pathological features of the stigma, and tests were carried out on the autonomical nervous activity of Anna Mariaís hands. The results indicated a very circumscribed vasomotor increased activity in the area where the stigmata lay. Anna Maria T. also underwent a psycodiagnostic evaluation to assess her mental state and from the results of the basic tests ( i.e., MMPI and Rorshach) no elements were found that could indicate any psycho-pathological problem. Combining these elements with the circumstances in which the stigmatic marks manifested themselves the first time and reappear each month, no elements were found that could indicate with which mechanisms a mental image (i.e., the figure of Christ on the Cross) could be transferred to Anna Mariaís body, i.e., no elements able to demonstrate the psychosomatic hypothesis of stigmata. [continued]
http://www.scientificexploration.org..._margnelli.pdf
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Grogs
#2
Dec28-04, 08:25 AM
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In most cases the stigmata are wounds to the hands and feet corresponding to those made by the nails with which Christ was crucified; however there can also be a chest wound that reproduces the stab-wound of the spear with which a Roman soldier put an end to the agony. Less frequently other marks, like those of the crown of thorns, the flagellation and the knee abrasion caused by the fall during the ascent of Calvary, are also present, varying greatly in detail from one stigmatized person to another.
Has anyone attempted to reconcile the modern view (that crucifixion was generally performed by putting the nails through the wrist) with the most common location of the stigmata (palm/back of the hands.) If the wounds are somehow psychosomatic/self inflicted, then certainly that person's perception, based largely on 19 Centuries of images with the nails through the palms, would be the root cause. If you hold another view (that the stigmata is divine/supernatural) then I think this discrepancy needs to be addressed.
Ivan Seeking
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Dec28-04, 02:07 PM
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I have always found this phenomenon to be very perplexing. Even if we accept this as psychosomatic, how does it happen? It does seem to be a genuine phenomenon, and not all cases of fraud.

chrissie
#4
Apr11-07, 04:19 PM
P: 3
Stigmata

I know of an unusual case in B.C. Canada, not fraud, saw it with my own eyes. Started out as a painless red raised welt on the upper inside of left arm. When the welt went away, a perfect star within a perfect circle remained, kinda like a brand or a stamp, but right into the skin. It faded as the skin shed, leaving behind a white scar until that too disappeared. Same on opposite arm, and four months later same thing on inside of wrists. The individual was/is not religious, nor experiencing any emotional or pscyhological hardship. This individual did not come forward or have this documented, largely because of fear, terror actually, shock and denial. Other people did witness this also.
newp175
#5
Apr12-07, 04:45 AM
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We dont really know much about the universe.


I advise you to stay away from that person. He has or is doing something evil.
Evo
#6
Apr12-07, 11:09 AM
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Quote Quote by newp175 View Post
We dont really know much about the universe.


I advise you to stay away from that person. He has or is doing something evil.
I hope you're joking.
chrissie
#7
Apr12-07, 04:36 PM
P: 3
yikes! I had never really considered this individual to be evil - on the contrary actually.

Consequently, I do believe it is that type of comment or attitude that dissuaded this indivual from coming forward, having this remarkable phenomena documented - and even provided any kind of opportunity for scientific exploration.

The fear factor whereby "society" associates such symbols to evil, the "devil", witchcraft, etc certainly must play a role in your comments.

Having researched the origin of that particular symbol because of seeing it with my own eyes, i'm certain that it is not evil - and while i appreciate your concern for my own well being, i do not feel that ostracizing my friend for something she had no control over is not really the answer.

I posted this comment and what i saw with my own eyes to open up a dialogue and explore possible etiologies - not to "stigmatize" this individual ;)
Ivan Seeking
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Apr12-07, 04:41 PM
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Beyond that, all religious conjecture is forbidden here. We are only interested in physical explanations.
newp175
#9
Apr13-07, 01:16 PM
P: 17
Then this is either a lie or he carved on his own those geometrically perfect symbols.


By the way check out Padre Pio, a stigmatic saint from Italy.


What is this symbol in your opinion chrissie?
chrissie
#10
Apr13-07, 01:55 PM
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Hey there newp,

I just wanted to remind you that you, yourself, wrote "we don't really know much about the universe" - I wholeheartedly believe that mathematics and physics will one day answer these questions. Why? Because these areas of science keep open to that which we do not know - and keep any religious conjecture away from sound theory and ideas.

Again, this is something i saw with my own eyes - it was not a carving, more like a brand if anything, and i gotta tell you, ive never ever seen a perfect circle before then - it was entirely awe inspiring - not to mention quite unsettling.

This symbol, in my opinion, is a pentacle - i'm not convinced of its origin either in the world or on the skin of my friend, but am convinced that there is more to it than we currently are aware. Pythagoras ( around 600 A.D.) had some ideas and insights related to this particular symbol and was essentially convinced that numbers were the essence of pretty much everything. My research into him finds that he was humanistic, empathetic towards all living things, and very intelligent.

This symbol also represents Man, and also represents the elements of earth, fire, water, air, etc.


Regarding Padre Pio, the saint from Italy (1912) whose bleeding from palms, etc is well documented. I don't deny his symptoms, at all. What does cause me to feel some skepitism, coming from a medical/nursing background, is that the areas where the bleeding occurs seems to be areas where blood vessels meet up in a network of capillaries to send the blood back up to the heart and lungs to be re-oxygenated. Because the actual blood flow has also been very well documented in this type of "stigmata", i wonder if there may be a physiological underpinning - a disease process that we just aren't familiar with at this time. Padre Pio, himself, describes feeling very tired prior to the onset of this bleeding, which is consistent with a decrease in oxygenated blood flow to the body and brain. That we don't know why it occurs does not give us the right to say that "it just doesn't occur", or "its impossible", or "he's lying". That is truly arrogant, is it not?

I just want to reiterate that my opinion is really only just that, and is speculation at most.
newp175
#11
Apr13-07, 02:14 PM
P: 17
I attached two pictures of Padre Pio.
Attached Thumbnails
Image24.jpg   padrepio.jpg  


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