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The girl who was stoned to death for falling in love

by Ivan Seeking
Tags: death, falling, girl, love, stoned
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Ivan Seeking
#1
May17-07, 01:55 PM
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...This act of medieval savagery took place last month in a town in northern Iraq, in the fledgling 'democracy' created by Bush and Blair when they invaded the country in 2003 and 'freed' its people.

...The filming of Du'a's death was just one more macabre element of her killing, but it has achieved something those bloodthirsty amateur filmmakers could not have predicted: it has brought such practices into the open and exposed them to the wider world. [continued]
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1879

So, we were going to make this place a democractic society? Did the men throwing the stones and filming with their cell phones vote?

Thanks to the internet, once it gets out, news like this spreads around the world like a wildfire. I suspect that this will act as a greater force for change than any bomb ever could.
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russ_watters
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May17-07, 02:09 PM
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This is a very common occurrence in fundamentalist Muslim areas. What probably separates this from the thousands that happen a year in other muslim countries is the fact that with new-found freedom, it should happen less than it used to. But until the country becomes stable, the pockets of hardcore fundamentalism will have more ability to harm those who dare exercise their new-found freedom.

The United Nations Population Fund estimates that the annual worldwide total of honor-killing victims may be as high as 5,000 women.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing
Art
#3
May17-07, 02:21 PM
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Quote Quote by russ_watters View Post
This is a very common occurrence in fundamentalist Muslim areas. What probably separates this from the thousands that happen a year in other muslim countries is the fact that with new-found freedom, it should happen less than it used to. But until the country becomes stable, the pockets of hardcore fundamentalism will have more ability to harm those who dare exercise their new-found freedom.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing
Iraq wasn't 'a fundamentalist muslim area' under Saddam

turbo
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May17-07, 02:26 PM
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The girl who was stoned to death for falling in love

It's not just killings. In Pakistan and parts of India women who reject a suitor may be attacked with battery acid, mutilating their faces. That way they are not likely to be married off, and will remain a "burden" on their families (women are not highly prized in some places) while they face social isolation and physical suffering. It's sickening what some peoples' value systems will allow them to do in the name of "honor".
russ_watters
#5
May17-07, 03:21 PM
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Quote Quote by Art View Post
Iraq wasn't 'a fundamentalist muslim area' under Saddam
It most certainly was. Saddam kept an iron fist on it, but these people didn't move there after Saddam left, they were already there.
Office_Shredder
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May17-07, 03:27 PM
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http://www.peacewomen.org/news/Iraq/May05/honour.html

May 17, 2005 - (IWPR'S Iraqi Crisis Report No. 125) Faeq Ameen Bakr, director general of Baghdad's Institute of Forensic Medicine in Baghdad, often writes "killed to wash away her disgrace" in the many autopsy reports and investigations that cross his desk.

The number of so-called honour killings - where a woman is killed by family members because they believe she has in some way shamed them - is said to have increased in Iraq since the fall of Saddam Hussein.

Iraq is a tribal society where honour killings are an accepted practice, but cases have been increasing because conservative attitudes have grown.
They were there, but Hussein didn't let them run the place by any means. There's a difference between having fundamentalists in an area, and being a fundamentalist area
turbo
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May17-07, 04:09 PM
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Quote Quote by Office_Shredder View Post
They were there, but Hussein didn't let them run the place by any means. There's a difference between having fundamentalists in an area, and being a fundamentalist area
That's a fair distinction. Now that people in Iraq have a non-existent central government, their tribal and religious affiliations are paramount, and the power of the fundamentalists has increased dramatically. Under Saddam, women had the right to be educated and hold jobs and participate as citizens. This is pretty rare in some Muslim countries.
Ivan Seeking
#8
May17-07, 06:42 PM
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Quote Quote by russ_watters View Post
But until the country becomes stable, the pockets of hardcore fundamentalism will have more ability to harm those who dare exercise their new-found freedom.
I think we have more than "pockets" to worry about...which is why we can't get stability.

Apparently security forces were looking on while this happened.
Ivan Seeking
#9
May17-07, 07:17 PM
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In order to enjoy the liberties of freedom, a society must first understand tolerance. I think the problem in Iraq is that we have pockets of tolerance.
morphism
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May17-07, 07:22 PM
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Quote Quote by Ivan Seeking View Post
In order to enjoy the liberties of freedom, a society must first understand tolerance.
Hear, hear!

Although apparently this is expecting too much.
Ivan Seeking
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May17-07, 07:28 PM
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I'm not ungrateful that they took away Saddam Hussein," says Salam Ahmed, 30, a Shiite businessman. "But the job is done. Thank you very much. See you later. Bye-bye."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/i...ll-cover_x.htm
arunbg
#12
May18-07, 03:00 AM
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This story just made me plain sick. These are probably the most grotesque faces of humanity I have seen to date.
The story begs the question, who's honour is it that they are trying to protect here?
If killing your own daughter, watching her being sexually assaulted and stoned to death restores your dignity or your daughter's, I don't think any amount of liberation or freedom can help .

Postmortem reports by medical "professionals" state "killed to wash away her disgrace", checking for viginity to restore some grace, and a maximum sentence of 6 months if found guilty?! WTF is the matter with these people!

I hope there is a follow up to the article regarding what action was taken against the murderers especially after there is so much irrefutable evidence.
Werg22
#13
May20-07, 01:56 AM
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Goes to show that Iraq's problems are way too deeply imbibed for any force to solve them.
Art
#14
May21-07, 06:57 PM
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Quote Quote by russ_watters View Post
It most certainly was. Saddam kept an iron fist on it, but these people didn't move there after Saddam left, they were already there.
Actually yes they did move there after Saddam fell. Many had fled to Iran to avoid Saddam and have since returned and others are the foreign fighters who have entered from Saudi Arabia and the like also since the fall of Saddam.

As I said in another thread one wonders if the US are fighting on the right side. The Ba'ath party under a new leader would it seems have been a much better option rather than allowing the Shi'ite fundamentalists to gain power regardless of whether they did it democratically or not.
turbo
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May21-07, 08:37 PM
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The Shi'ite majority was in place before Saddam fell. The Sunni minority was in place before Saddam fell, though a number of them were forced out of holdings that they were given after the suppression (murder, expatriation, ethnic cleansing) of the Kurds. This is not a simple problem with a simple solution. The Iranians don't want hostile Sunnis on their borders, and the Saudis do not want Shi'ites to control Iraq, and both are exerting influence there. The Bushies loudly decry any Iranian influence, and ignore any Saudi influence on the side of the Sunnis. News by press-release is almost always propaganda and is always misleading, and intentionally so. The practice of "embedding" reporters with military units gives the DOD control over what the journalists see, what they can report on, and ultimately, what we US citizens are allowed to know about the disposition of a war that is not going well.
Curious3141
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May23-07, 06:45 AM
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Wait for it. We're witnessing a burgeoning New Iran.
oroboro
#17
Jun7-07, 05:51 PM
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Just to let you guys know, Islam has nothing to do with these types of killings, in fact, it condemns them. They're purely cultural and have existed in Arab/Indian areas for hundreds of years, even before Islam. Yes, adultery is punished with stoning, but that goes for both males and females. I don't think that that was this woman's crime though.

Of course, a lot of ignorant people try to say that this happens only in Muslim countries and so it has to do with Islam somehow. Honour killings also occur a lot with Hindus/Sikhs in India. Also, if you look at other Muslim areas, such as those in Africa and Europe, you'll find that there aren't any.

The media obviously tries to use these honour killings to attack Islam.
Ivan Seeking
#18
Jun7-07, 07:02 PM
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Quote Quote by oroboro View Post
Just to let you guys know, Islam has nothing to do with these types of killings, in fact, it condemns them. They're purely cultural and have existed in Arab/Indian areas for hundreds of years, even before Islam. Yes, adultery is punished with stoning, but that goes for both males and females. I don't think that that was this woman's crime though.

Of course, a lot of ignorant people try to say that this happens only in Muslim countries and so it has to do with Islam somehow. Honour killings also occur a lot with Hindus/Sikhs in India. Also, if you look at other Muslim areas, such as those in Africa and Europe, you'll find that there aren't any.

The media obviously tries to use these honour killings to attack Islam.
Hopefully these primative practices will never stand the light of day - the world scrutiny made possible by the internet.

Here, we shoot em, hang em, electricute em, inject em, or in the case of adultery in particular, impeach em, but we are civilized about it.


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