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Is there really a planet X?

by Utwig
Tags: cycle, nibiru, planet, sumer
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Utwig
#1
Sep21-08, 02:00 PM
P: 15
Hi,

Iím new to the forum, having joined after 6 pints on Saturday night while looking for historical evidence of the mythical 10th planet as described by the ancient Sumerians.

The purpose of this post is to spark debate, hopefully backed up with facts that can be verified (and I donít really mean you tube videos or other web sites whoís contents are rehashing of various theories often with no basis in fact or science, a good example of this is a site called badastronomy.com, if anyone quotes this site as fact, there is a chance Iíll hunt you down and attach large crocodile clips to your gonads wired into the mains supply, just for being so stupid.).

To start with, let me state my position. Iím prepared to accept the possibility of another large body in our solar system, even one that is on a highly inclined orbit that has not been found by our current science. Indeed, as I understand it, within astronomy circles this idea may itself be gaining some acceptance as there are some anomalies in the orbits of the outer planets that could be explained by the movements of such a body. Please note that Iím using words here like Ďmayí or Ďcouldí because Iím not completely sold on the idea, Iím just prepared to explore it.

From what I have read on the subject, the mysterious planet apparently has a orbit in the region of 3600 years, and this causes a few issues for me as the Sumerian tablets that reference this body are were penned (made) around the early part of the Sumerian civilisation approximately, and its a very rough approximation, of 4000 bce or so. If that is the case, then surely it should have made another pass at around the time of Alexander the Great who was undeniably a man who liked to have things written down, especially about himself. In all the contemporary Greek works I have located about that time, very few, in fact none, mention a large red star that caused a lot of devastation, earthquakes, floods ect. There are a lot of references to Alexander himself stabbing anything in his way to death (best friends, enemies, it didnít really seem to matter a lot to him what side you were on) as he rampaged through the then known world.

Looking comparatively at other ancient texts, there are not many that cover the same time period where evidence can be found. The Rig Vadas (Sanskrit texts) do appear to go back that far, but they donít mention the planet either. I have read most of them now, and have not been able to locate anything that can be considered as evidence for this mysterious planet (please note though that the 4 ages or Yuga that are talked of often in these texts are 7200 years in length, exactly 2x3600, Iím not saying that has any relevance but it is odd they would arrive at a figure that could at a stretch be somehow linked). Nor is there anything in any of the ancient Greek texts either prior to Alexander, even when they talk of their golden age when Gods and Titans roamed all over sleeping with anything that moved, animal, mineral or vegetable.

As a general side note, please do go read the Rig Vadas, nothing about mysterious planets, but a shed load of other stuff that really is mysterious.

The only other place I have found anything that can be referenced as an unexplained solar body is in translations of Mayan mythology (with the exception perhaps of the star of Bethlehem story and Iím not going anywhere near that), and its from these guys that the name ĎNibiruí seems to come from. They are also the ones responsible for the current 2012 hysteria gripping the internet, but reading a little deeper and cross referencing with some current astronomical studies its entirely possible they were really talking about the upcoming transition through the galactic equator supposedly happening between now and 2015 by modern calculations. Either way, I have a basic unwritten rule in life not to take anything seriously from anyone who thought it was a good idea to rip the beating hearts out of other people, and the Maya did a lot of that so I tend to take what they say with a hefty dose of salt. It is worth mentioning though that the Maya were around from approximately 1800 bceíish to 500 or so ce, so some of the stuff they wrote about (or drew glyphs about) was in the right time period to record the passing of the planet if it does indeed exist.

So without much written evidence (and what there is can be subject to interpretation) where else can evidence be found?

Is there any geological evidence to support the idea that there is a 3600 year cycle of general mayhem and destruction?

Is there any ice core evidence to support the idea that on or around that 3600 year period there is increased volcanic activity?

Is there any physical evidence (tree ring studies, increased or decreased glaciation, anything!) at all to support the idea that this cycle could be real?

If anyone knows of any such evidence, please post up about it and where it can be found? I would welcome serious informed debate on the subject.

Before I sign off, a little about myself for anyone who is interested, or anyone currently studying radio theory, electromagnetics, or nuclear theory. I spent over a decade in the Royal Navy as a radio/RADAR engineer and was involved with submarine pressurised water reactors for 2 years or so. I think I have a fairly well grounded, practical understanding of the subjects and could probably aid in explaining some of the theoretical or practical elements if anyone is writing collage papers etc, feel free to ask, if I donít know Iíll say so pretty quick.

Utwig.
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russ_watters
#2
Sep21-08, 03:15 PM
Mentor
P: 22,252
I’m prepared to accept the possibility of another large body in our solar system, even one that is on a highly inclined orbit that has not been found by our current science.
That is a near certainty. We have already found objects larger and further out than Pluto. However:

The purpose of this post is to spark debate, hopefully backed up with facts that can be verified....

From what I have read on the subject...
Essentially everything on the Sumerian/Planet X subject is fabricated. Lies. The creation of the mind of one particular crackpot. There is no science to be had here.
Is there any geological evidence to support the idea that there is a 3600 year cycle of general mayhem and destruction?
No.
Is there any ice core evidence to support the idea that on or around that 3600 year period there is increased volcanic activity?
No.
Is there any physical evidence (tree ring studies, increased or decreased glaciation, anything!) at all to support the idea that this cycle could be real?
No.
Utwig
#3
Sep21-08, 04:03 PM
P: 15
Hi,

As you can probably tell from the post, Im not really a true believer, but am certainly curious. The crackpot you mentioned is probably a chap called Zacoria who has published a number of books on the subject. To be honest, I put him in the same bucket as that other fella Von Daniken, i.e, people who could probably make a decent case if they didn’t try to make such massive reaches into fantasy(and unfortunately stifle debate as they come over as bonafide madmen ). For this reason, I prefer to look for translations by the British Museum (Gadd, Langdon or King) or the French chap De Genouillac, and on some things, these do seem to confirm some of that Zac has published. Of course, this doesn’t mean its real, it just means its something the Sumerians wrote about and all ancient cultures were capable of spinning a good yarn.

Utwig

DaleSpam
#4
Sep21-08, 07:30 PM
Mentor
P: 16,999
Is there really a planet X?

Quote Quote by russ_watters View Post
We have already found objects larger and further out than Pluto.
Are any of them large enough to fit the modern definition of "planet" then?
russ_watters
#6
Sep21-08, 09:33 PM
Mentor
P: 22,252
Quote Quote by DaleSpam View Post
Are any of them large enough to fit the modern definition of "planet" then?
Seems I was wrong - here's a list that says the biggest is half the size of Pluto (I was pretty sure though. Hmm). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_brightest_KBOs

Regarding the new definition, though, I don't think so, but I'm not real clear on how the definition works.
russ_watters
#7
Sep21-08, 09:35 PM
Mentor
P: 22,252
A little more:

To be more specific, the banned topic is the new Planet X myth. This is different from the Planet X theorized by Percival Lowell in the first decade of the 20th century.....which also doesn't exist:
Demise of Planet X
Once found, Pluto's faintness and lack of a resolvable disc cast doubt on the idea that it could be Lowell's Planet X. Throughout the mid-20th century, estimates of Pluto's mass were often revised downward. In 1978, the discovery of Pluto's moon Charon allowed the measurement of Pluto's mass for the first time. Its mass, roughly 0.2 percent that of the Earth, was far too small to account for the discrepancies in Uranus. Subsequent searches for an alternate Planet X, notably by Robert Sutton Harrington,[31] failed. In 1993, Myles Standish used data from Voyager 2's 1989 flyby of Neptune, which had revised the planet's total mass downward by 0.5 percent, to recalculate its gravitational effect on Uranus. With the new figures added in, the discrepancies, and with them the need for a Planet X, vanished.[32] Today the overwhelming consensus among astronomers is that Planet X, as Lowell defined it, does not exist. Lowell had made a prediction of Planet X's position in 1915 that was fairly close to Pluto's actual position at that time; however, Ernest W. Brown concluded almost immediately that this was a coincidence, a view still held today.[33]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pluto#Demise_of_Planet_X


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