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Lincoln quote

by edpell
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edpell
#1
Apr13-10, 08:01 PM
P: 451
Here is an interesting quote from Abraham Lincoln as quoted in "The Real Lincoln" by Thomas DiLorenzo on page 85.

"Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable, a most sacred right--a right which we hope and believe is to liberate the world. Nor is this right confined to cases in which the whole population of an existing government may choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people, that can, may revolutionize, and make their own of so much of the territory as they inhabit." -- Abraham Lincoln, January 12, 1848
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MotoH
#2
Apr13-10, 08:06 PM
P: 237
Is this supporting the riots and government overthrow of the Kyg. government?

But yes, good quote, I believe the militias use it a lot.
edpell
#3
Apr13-10, 08:12 PM
P: 451
Quote Quote by MotoH View Post
Is this supporting the riots and government overthrow of the Kyg. government?
I do not think Lincoln had much [any?] awareness of the government of Kyg. I think he may have been influenced by the Declaration of Independence, 1776, that reads in part:

"To secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.... Whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government."

Office_Shredder
#4
Apr13-10, 09:44 PM
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Lincoln quote

This is only true when you're the one who wants a new country of course
Ivan Seeking
#5
Apr13-10, 09:53 PM
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Quote Quote by edpell View Post
I do not think Lincoln had much [any?] awareness of the government of Kyg.
I think it was pretty clear that motoh was referring to your motives.

We have a quotes thread. What is the point of starting a thread in politics?
edpell
#6
Apr14-10, 04:51 PM
P: 451
It seems more political. Lincoln seems either very flexible or inconsistent. 12 years later he starts a war that kills hundreds of thousands of Americans arguing the other side of what he said just 12 years before.
Vanadium 50
#7
Apr14-10, 11:02 PM
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That Lincoln. To think he would interfere with man's inalienable right to own other men. We'll see how history judges him!
russ_watters
#8
Apr14-10, 11:16 PM
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Quote Quote by edpell View Post
It seems more political. Lincoln seems either very flexible or inconsistent. 12 years later he starts a war that kills hundreds of thousands of Americans arguing the other side of what he said just 12 years before.
I don't see Lincoln suggesting a revolt must necessarily succeed (that the government should have let the south secede)....and it is certainly misleading to say he started the war. Regardless of who fired the first shot or what the tactical situation was, the war happened because the South seceded.

So I too fail to see your point. Are you just tryinig to bash Lincoln here for not letting the south secede or blaming the civil war on him or what?

You need to make a point here and make an argument supporting your point. Just posting a quote to see what responses you get and responding to them is not a coherent enough purpose to be worthy of continuing. Please make your point now.
Jimmy Snyder
#9
Apr15-10, 12:33 AM
P: 2,179
Quote Quote by edpell View Post
Lincoln seems either very flexible or inconsistent. 12 years later he starts a war that kills hundreds of thousands of Americans arguing the other side of what he said just 12 years before.
Just 12 years!?!? What politician waits that long to contradict themselves? Your quote is out of context. Can you provide us with the context?
MotoH
#10
Apr15-10, 08:53 AM
P: 237
Next are you going to call the Confederate soldiers terrorists?
zomgwtf
#11
Apr15-10, 11:50 AM
P: 500
Quote Quote by MotoH View Post
Next are you going to call the Confederate soldiers terrorists?
They weren't terrorist! However, Jefferson Davis, was the devil!
Ivan Seeking
#12
Apr15-10, 12:12 PM
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One could easily argue that Lincoln's statement was completely consistent with the idea that enslaved persons have a right to be freed from oppression. That is, unless you think he only meant white people.
mheslep
#13
Apr15-10, 03:52 PM
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Quote Quote by Ivan Seeking View Post
One could easily argue that Lincoln's statement was completely consistent with the idea that enslaved persons have a right to be freed from oppression. That is, unless you think he only meant white people.
Agreed. If it were not for slavery, and the fact that South Carolina attacked a Federal fort, I can not imagine Lincoln pressing a war against the South.
edpell
#14
Apr15-10, 04:36 PM
P: 451
I think the point that Thomas DiLorenzo is making in his book "The Real Lincoln" is conveyed in chapter 4 (the one directly before the OP quote) entitled "Lincoln's Real Agenda". He starts that chapter with a Lincoln quote of which I will give part "I am in favor of a national bank... in favor of the internal improvement system and a high protective tariff." -- Abraham Lincoln, 1832 spoken during a campaign speech.

DiLorenzo characterizes the "internal improvement system" as corporate welfare. He says of the nation bank:
"Nationalized banking was always part and parcel of the mercantilist agenda as well, for mercantilists have always advocated having the government simply print paper money in order to finance their special-interest subsidies. That way, the costs of the subsidies can be more easily hidden from the public".

The high protective tariffs are the standard "American beauty rose" argument of folks in favor of monopoly and opposed to free trade.
zomgwtf
#15
Apr15-10, 05:10 PM
P: 500
So this book is just one big quote mine of Abraham Lincoln??? I don't see what point you are trying to make here in this thread, especially in light of this new quote... Maybe I'm just slow.
MotoH
#16
Apr15-10, 05:13 PM
P: 237
Lincoln wanted a unified America first, and end slavery third/fourth/fifth.
zomgwtf
#17
Apr15-10, 05:16 PM
P: 500
Quote Quote by MotoH View Post
Lincoln wanted a unified America first, and end slavery third/fourth/fifth.
Is that his point?
edpell
#18
Apr15-10, 05:17 PM
P: 451
Quote Quote by zomgwtf View Post
So this book is just one big quote mine of Abraham Lincoln??? I don't see what point you are trying to make here in this thread, especially in light of this new quote... Maybe I'm just slow.
Most of the chapters in the book begin with a Lincoln quote. I think because they make the point of the chapter that follows.


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