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Recent Ship to Gaza turmoil

by TubbaBlubba
Tags: gaza, israel
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TubbaBlubba
#1
May31-10, 09:04 AM
P: 106
I'm sure you've all heard about it - a substantial group of people, most of them being peace advocates and the like - have been attempting to ship some food, tents, concrete and other supplies to gaza via a completely peacefull convoy.

Of course, Israel's military doesn't like this, and attacked the vessels, I believe 6, on international waters. So far I've heard numbers of around 20 seriously injured people, some of them possibly being among the top muslim peace advocates.

I haven't heard very much specifics, and the Israeli military is very strict with letting any information out regarding injured, dead, etc.

To me, this basically constitutes an essential form of state terrorism. I don't know how much longer the west will condone Israel's actions, but I don't hope it's much longer. And I dread to see how Iran and the like will react to this.

It's just such a pity that they couldn't just get there and help people, instead the Israeli military has to turn this into some weaponized conflict...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/10195838.stm - BBC says "more than ten" dead.
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Geigerclick
#2
May31-10, 09:16 AM
P: 101
They had a blockade, and a group which knew this, had protesters ready before the ship ever "sailed" decided to do this. The IDF acted in typical fashion, which is to say, with jack-boots. The issue of who reacts here, is going to be Turkey, not Iran. Turkey is PISSED.

That said, these people who organized this "relief vessel" (read: propaganda tool) knew that the Israeli government couldn't afford to let this slide. They are getting exactly what they want, attention for their "cause", and the fact that they took this terrible risk to get it didn't stop them. The IDF used overkill, but the people who chose to set this into motion are ultimately to blame in this.

This is a political stunt at the expense of lives on the part of several pro-palestinian groups, who stood to win if Israel backed off their existing blockade, or win in the case of the use of force. Israel should learn that this is not an effective way to conduct business, but when a country has a military blockade and you sail into it... you're taking your life into your own hands.

This is a stunt by The Free Gaza Movement, and IHH, and I find it disgusting.
TubbaBlubba
#3
May31-10, 09:21 AM
P: 106
I see your point. Obviously they were hoping for Israel to react this way, but that in no way condones Israel's actions.

Geigerclick
#4
May31-10, 09:24 AM
P: 101
Recent Ship to Gaza turmoil

Quote Quote by TubbaBlubba View Post
I see your point. Obviously they were hoping for Israel to react this way, but that in no way condones Israel's actions.
Agreed, it takes a degree of stupidity to play into the hands of groups such as this, and unless some proof of violence started by the ship's passengers is shown, this would seem to be a case of grotesque overkill. I don't understand why the IDF chose to board the ship, instead of using naval assets to keep it offshore.
TubbaBlubba
#5
May31-10, 09:29 AM
P: 106
The problem in all of this is that the west tends to be RIDICULOUSLY apologetic to Israel to a point of sheer absurdity, in particular the US.

Whether this has to do with religion, holocaust guilt or just general hate of muslims, I don't know.


Though it seems to have gotten to a point - Even our (Sweden's) foreign minister, Carl Bildt, in my opinion a rather egotistical and conservative man who's mostly interested in his own business in oil and weapon dealing, has been somewhat critical of Israel, and he supported the invasion of Iraq.
OmCheeto
#6
May31-10, 09:51 AM
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I've been following the story for about a week on Al Jazeera. I'd seen no mention of it on any other news media until today. Here's what I know:

Both Israel and Egypt offered to allow the ships to land outside of Gaza, have the cargo inspected by UN officials, and allow non-weapons to enter.

The flotilla organizers refused the offers.

[Judgement]I'll let god decide who gets to go to hell over this mess.[/Judgement]
signerror
#7
May31-10, 09:51 AM
P: 223
Complete lies. The "peace advocates" instigated the conflict with vicious assaults.
Israeli commandos: Gaza flotilla crew tried to lynch us

The commandos, who intercepted the Turkish ferry Mavi Marmara after it ignored orders to turn back, said they encountered violent resistance from activists armed with sticks and knives. According to the soldiers, the activists threw one of their comrades from the upper deck to the lower after they boarded.

Activists attacked a commando with iron bars as he descended onto the ship from a helicopter, the army said. The IDF said its rules of engagement allowed troops to open fire in what it called a "life-threatening situation".

The soldiers said they were forced to open fire after the activists struck one of their comrades in the head and trampled on him. A senior field commander ordered the soldiers then to respond with fire, a decision which the commandos said received full backing the military echelon.

...

The IDF confirmed that at least eight navy commandos had been wounded, at least two of them seriously, in a fight which apparently broke out after activists tried to seize their weapons.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...ch-us-1.293089

But you don't need to rely on their word alone: here's two separate video recordings. (WARNING: real violence). This is one is from an IDF helicopter at short range (excellent bird's-eye view):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU12KW-XyZE

(YouTube channel is official IDF representatives)

And here's a Turkish camera on the ship:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/mid...t/10195838.stm

See e.g. 0:10 and 0:22 to see IDF soldiers getting beaten with crowbars by "unarmed peace activists".
waht
#8
May31-10, 10:04 AM
P: 1,636
9 people were killed

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100531/...l_palestinians

and also another site reported that on that ship was a retired US army colonel, an 80 year old holocaust survivor, and a Nobel laureate. But we don't know whether or not they were killed.
signerror
#9
May31-10, 10:12 AM
P: 223
By the way, none of this was unexpected. Here's a series of articles in Haaretz (Israeli newspaper), all of which predate the incident:
The IDF on Thursday completed its preparations for countering the international aid flotilla that is heading for the Gaza Strip. Israel announced Thursday that it will prevent the ships from reaching their destination, and warned that it will not hesitate to make use of limited force if it becomes necessary.

Israel considers the effort by international left-wing elements and Islamic organizations as intentional provocation under the guise of humanitarian aid.

...

The basic assumption is that the activists are looking for a clash, and perhaps even a little bloodshed, which will be captured in the media. As far as is known, there are no arms on board the ships.
MESS Report / Aid flotilla won't alter the humanitarian situation in Gaza

(Prescient!)
...Flotilla organizers arranged the timing so that a potential encounter with the Israeli Navy would occur during the daytime hours, and not during the darkness of night.

...

The organizers had ignored Israeli offers for the flotilla to dock in its southern port of Ashdod, just north of Gaza, and to transport the 10,000 tons of aid to the coastal enclave from there, it said.
Hamas: Flotilla shows whole world opposes Gaza siege

IDF vows to block 'Freedom Flotilla' aid convoy to Gaza

Israel will try to block flotilla from reaching Gaza, but will let aid through
Count Iblis
#10
May31-10, 10:31 AM
P: 2,158
A stupid action by Israel. It is true that Israel was provoked, but then that's the whole point of all demonstrations/potests. Unless Israel can prove that this was a weapon shipment that would have posed a significant threat to Israeli security had it been allowed to go ahead, Israel has violated international law.

Compare what Israel has done to the actions we see off the coast of Somalia, where force is only used if it is really necessary and very often the Somali pirates are free to go after the are disarmed. I would then say that the Israeli action looks far more like the action of the Somali pirates than that of the NATO forces.
waht
#11
May31-10, 10:53 AM
P: 1,636
Israel controls Gaza's coastline (legally or illegally) and so how does one reconcile the fact that a ship is heading to Gaza (legally or illegally)?
Flat
#12
May31-10, 11:17 AM
P: 75
Quote Quote by TubbaBlubba View Post
I'm sure you've all heard about it - a substantial group of people, most of them being peace advocates and the like - have been attempting to ship some food, tents, concrete and other supplies to gaza via a completely peacefull convoy.

Of course, Israel's military doesn't like this, and attacked the vessels, I believe 6, on international waters. So far I've heard numbers of around 20 seriously injured people, some of them possibly being among the top muslim peace advocates.

...

It's just such a pity that they couldn't just get there and help people, instead the Israeli military has to turn this into some weaponized conflict...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/10195838.stm - BBC says "more than ten" dead.
Here is the story from yesterday about the convy: http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/...est/index.html

Contacted by CNN, the IDF reiterated the Israeli government's offer for the flotilla to dock at Israel's Ashdod port, where supplies would be unloaded and transferred to Gaza.
.......
The Israeli government said Thursday it would stop the convoy, and that the IDF has been given instructions to reroute the flotilla to Ashdod. The activists remain adamant that they are headed to Gaza.

Both sides insisted on Sunday they do not want a confrontation.

"We are determined. We are going to bust through the Israeli navy," Qashoo said. But "we are not seeking any confrontation ... we are simply a humanitarian mission."

He said the participants will defend themselves if they must.
So in other words this was more of a publicity to try to provoke Isreal (success).
shoehorn
#13
May31-10, 03:26 PM
P: 448
Quote Quote by Flat View Post
So in other words this was more of a publicity to try to provoke Isreal (success).
I suppose that makes the murder of perhaps nineteen people okay then.
tiny-tim
#14
May31-10, 03:57 PM
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Quote Quote by shoehorn View Post
I suppose that makes the murder of perhaps nineteen people okay then.
(nineteen or nine?)

Seems to have been self-defence

the BBC has been running a video showing quite clearly, amongst other things, these "peace activists" beating one fallen israeli soldier with iron bars.
pallidin
#15
May31-10, 03:59 PM
P: 2,292
Sometimes, cutting-off "humanitarian" supplies cut's-off a relief to terrorists.
I have no problem with that.
It's a bastard situation, after all.
OmCheeto
#16
May31-10, 04:00 PM
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Quote Quote by shoehorn View Post
I suppose that makes the murder of perhaps nineteen people okay then.
Perhaps if the "Peace" activist's had not assaulted with steel pipes, stabbed, and shot the Israeli soldiers, there would have been no repercussive "murders".

Perhaps these "Peace" activist's should have taken some hints from American "Peace Activist's".

OmCheeto
#17
May31-10, 04:09 PM
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Quote Quote by pallidin View Post
Sometimes, cutting-off "humanitarian" supplies cut's-off a relief to terrorists.
I have no problem with that.
It's a bastard situation, after all.
There never was a cut off of "humanitarian" supplies.
The United Arab Emirates routinely sends in truckloads of supplies to Gaza.

But I agree with your assessment, that this is a bastard of a situation.
shoehorn
#18
May31-10, 04:11 PM
P: 448
Quote Quote by OmCheeto View Post
Perhaps these "Peace" activist's should have taken some hints from American "Peace Activist's".
Indeed, because that clearly worked out so well for the Americans, didn't it?


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