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When to disclose details of sexuality

by brainstorm
Tags: disclose, sexuality
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DanP
#37
Aug18-10, 01:34 PM
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Quote Quote by cronxeh
No, aggression feels good. It has nothing to do with fear, it is a pure feeling of rage that you can channel into something productive. And like I said, I am not a violent person.

Behold Cronxeh (top )

cronxeh
#38
Aug18-10, 01:34 PM
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Quote Quote by DanP View Post
Behold Cronxeh (top )
There is a difference between hostile and instrumental aggression
nucleargirl
#39
Aug18-10, 01:37 PM
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Quote Quote by cronxeh View Post
No, aggression feels good. It has nothing to do with fear, it is a pure feeling of rage that you can channel into something productive. You can be aggressive during a fight, during sex, during competition, during math exam, or during a job interview. And like I said, I am not a violent person.
hm interesting... I dont really have this feeling that you describe...
when I feel like doing something productive I usually feel more like happy - like yeah! I'm doing this amazing thing! yay!
actually, ok I have felt aggression when I'm angry, but I wouldn't describe it as constructive- more destructive if anything... it shuts off my mind and stops me thinking, and then its not good, especially if you are arguing with someone. It just makes me feel really mad! not good feeling!
Never felt it in a job interview - more nervous and scared!
cronxeh
#40
Aug18-10, 01:38 PM
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Quote Quote by nucleargirl View Post
hm interesting... I dont really have this feeling that you describe...
No kidding. You are a girl, or a very wimpy guy. Either way, you can't know what it feels like to be a man

Quote Quote by nucleargirl
I have felt aggression when I'm angry, but I wouldn't describe it as constructive- more destructive if anything... it shuts off my mind and stops me thinking, and then its not good, especially if you are arguing with someone. It just makes me feel really mad! not good feeling!
Quite the opposite for me. Aggression gives me clarity, boost of energy, and numbs any pain I may feel. It is the ultimate rush, I guess if you play DnD/WoW its like the barbarian rage. ROOAAR!!
DanP
#41
Aug18-10, 01:41 PM
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Quote Quote by cronxeh View Post
No kidding. You are a girl, or a very wimpy guy. Either way, you can't know what it feels like to be a man
You want this, don't you? The hate is swelling in you now. Take your Jedi weapon. Use it. I am unarmed. Strike me down with it. Give in to your anger. With each passing moment you make yourself more my servant.

His Majesty Emperor Palpatine
cronxeh
#42
Aug18-10, 01:45 PM
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Quote Quote by DanP View Post
No, no. Anger leads to hostile aggression. It is an irrational fear coupled with frustration that you feel. It is just sillypants.

Instrumental aggression is awesome:



Hostile aggression is lame:

DanP
#43
Aug18-10, 01:54 PM
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Quote Quote by cronxeh View Post
Instrumental aggression is awesome.
Instrumental aggression:

aggression against another person in which the aggression is used as a means of securing some reward or to achieve a goal.

It's basically predatory aggression. If you say you are not a violent person, believe me, you never had used instrumental aggression.
brainstorm
#44
Aug18-10, 01:54 PM
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Quote Quote by cronxeh View Post
No, aggression feels good. It has nothing to do with fear, it is a pure feeling of rage that you can channel into something productive. You can be aggressive during a fight, during sex, during competition, during math exam, or during a job interview. And like I said, I am not a violent person.
I once worked for an elderly guy who explained the etymology of ag-gress(ion) to me as meaning simply "going toward." Aggression is really just a feeling of invigoration in working toward a goal. Nevertheless, you should understand that many people have been taught to fear and repress aggression with the belief that there are less violent ways to pursue goals. This is somewhat indicative of the "Freudian era," if I could call it that, because the strategy is to "sublimate" aggression by channeling it into less direct expression. Imo, passive aggression is rampant in present-day culture because of the high degree of aggression-repression/sublimation, but you have to understand that people who are acting passive aggressive aren't directly choosing to express their aggression that way. All they perceive is the "active" aggression that they are avoiding. For example, they feel like punching you or screaming at you for something, but since they control themselves and avoid doing that, they are patting themselves on the back for their self-control without thinking about the fact that they are being snide or turning progressive shades of red while maintaining an artificially calm tone.

In any case, there's really not much point in arguing a case for aggression to such people, because they will always stay fixated on hyper-violent imagery of active aggression such as the picture of squirrels electrocuting each other above. In truth, aggression can be expressed in a harmless way, and even less harmfully than passive forms of aggression, but for that to happen, people have to have a sense of it being ok. As long as someone experiences any form of expressing active aggression as breaking a taboo, they will only react with their own (passive) aggression toward the breach of the taboo. So, you're just exposing yourself to reactionary aggression by expressing any legitimacy for aggression.
DanP
#45
Aug18-10, 01:56 PM
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Quote Quote by brainstorm View Post
I once worked for an elderly guy who explained the etymology of ag-gress(ion) to me as meaning simply "going toward." Aggression is really just a feeling of invigoration in working toward a goal.
The layman definitions are pretty much remote from the definitions used in social psychology.
cronxeh
#46
Aug18-10, 02:00 PM
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Quote Quote by DanP View Post
Instrumental aggression:

aggression against another person in which the aggression is used as a means of securing some reward or to achieve a goal.

It's basically predatory aggression. If you say you are not a violent person, believe me, you never had used instrumental aggression.
I have never used violence to achieve a goal. I have used aggression to achieve a goal, and trust me, I felt good while doing it. I guess for you to understand the difference, refer to Cesar Millan's show The Dog Whisperer. People are a lot alike to dogs when it comes to social attitudes.
nucleargirl
#47
Aug18-10, 02:03 PM
P: 126
hm, yes this is all very interesting - I had no idea there were different types of aggression! but I think we are digressing from the thread so maybe we should start a new one if we are to discuss this further.
DanP
#48
Aug18-10, 02:03 PM
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Quote Quote by cronxeh View Post
I have never used violence to achieve a goal. I have used aggression to achieve a goal, and trust me, I felt good while doing it.
I really think you confuse some terms here, or you created your own definitions for "aggression", especially for the instrumental type.Perhaps you discovered how it is to be assertive. But ok, beeit as you say. Lets talk about chicks.
brainstorm
#49
Aug18-10, 02:05 PM
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Quote Quote by DanP View Post
The layman definitions are pretty much remote from the definitions used in social psychology.
Notice the difference between the denotation of root-meanings and the connotations expressed in the following definition from the online etymology dictionary:

aggression
1610s, "unprovoked attack," noun of action from verb aggress "to approach, to start an argument" (1570s), from Fr. aggresser, from L.L. aggressare, freq. of L. aggredi (pp. aggressus) "to approach, attack," from ad- "to" + gradi (pp. gressus) "to step," from gradus "a step" (see grade). Psychological sense of "hostile or destructive behavior" first recorded 1912 in A.A. Brill's translation of Freud.
gradi/gressus means "to step" and the prefix mean "toward." Whether "stepping toward" something or someone is interpreted as hostile, violent, or to what extent really has to do with the perspective of the person getting "stepped toward," right? The person doing the stepping might not intend hostility or violence. Likewise, if something directs some expression or action in your direction and you react with a great deal of fear and defensiveness, this could be out of an intense desire to control interactions with others completely.

Either way, the point is that by defining aggression at a taboo level of violence and hostility, it creates a premium to repress and control it. The question then becomes what is strong enough to repress and control aggression except another form of aggression, preferably one that doesn't bring attack on itself by appearing as aggression. In other words, passive aggression. Don't believe me? Read back through the post responses to the pro-aggression stance and analyze what tactics people used to "put aggression in its place."
lisab
#50
Aug18-10, 02:12 PM
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I think agression without violence can be called assertiveness.

But for the OP...are you certain what you're dealing with is a true sexual addiction? I mean, was this a diagnosis from a trained counselor?
Astronuc
#51
Aug18-10, 02:16 PM
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Actually assertiveness and aggression are to different behaviors.

Speaking up for oneself or standing one's ground is assertive, but not aggressive. Simply expression one's feelings without feeling inadequate is assertive, not aggressive.
DanP
#52
Aug18-10, 02:35 PM
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Quote Quote by Astronuc View Post
Actually assertiveness and aggression are to different behaviors.

Speaking up for oneself or standing one's ground is assertive, but not aggressive. Simply expression one's feelings without feeling inadequate is assertive, not aggressive.
True, astronuc.

Social psych define aggression as "behavior intended to hurt another person". Instrumental agression is one of the most dangerous behavioral patterns, in that that the harmful behavior is not emotional, is planned in cold blood and with a well defined goal in mind.
This type of aggression is found in a certain sociopathic profiles. An almost "textbook" case of instrumental aggression, which was very high profile at that time, was Tonya Harding;s attack on her competitor in order to secure victory.

Id say in the vast amount of cases , ppl who believed they discovered aggression, they merely learned to take several steps out of passivity / compliance towards a more assertive behavior.
cronxeh
#53
Aug18-10, 02:40 PM
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Hmm. Apparently the serotonin levels after actual aggression go down and make you feel bad, while assertive behavior makes you feel good. Like you said, aggression without harm (perceived, physical or emotional) is not really aggression, it is assertiveness. Then what is the deal with feeling energy boost and mental clarity? Adrenaline-induced assertiveness?
brainstorm
#54
Aug18-10, 02:47 PM
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Quote Quote by lisab View Post
I think agression without violence can be called assertiveness.

But for the OP...are you certain what you're dealing with is a true sexual addiction? I mean, was this a diagnosis from a trained counselor?
This is actually just one part of a hypothetical example, but it is a valuable topic so let's address it: regardless of what a "trained counselor" assesses, you really have to come to your own understanding of what addiction generally and sexual addiction in particular refers to. Different counselors will have different approaches, and of course people go to counselors for therapy so if it makes them feel better to hear one definition of addiction instead of another, they'll choose that counselor.

Addiction, imo, is not an absolute thing where people are either totally addicted or totally free of desire. Addiction is, imo, another word for "attachment," which I point out because buddhist philosophy offers some good approaches to evaluating the meaning of attachments and ways to deal with them.

Generally, the most dangerous part of recognizing addiction is the strong potential for people to react against the label. It's a hard thing for someone to be open to the possibility that they are addicted to something and calmly consider what they could or should do to deal with it. Instead, people are afraid that if they are labeled as an addict, they will be required to give up their attachment, which either frightens or just bothers them, either because they are truly addicted to some degree or because they just don't want to give up something unnecessarily to prove they're not addicted (who would blame them?)

With sexual addiction, why would someone engage in taboo or illegal behaviors, or ones that could endanger the health of their body or relationship if there was no level of addiction? Another question is whether there is a difference between addiction and simply being "hungry" in comparison to the difference between food addictions and simply being hungry (for food thus). People have different sexual appetites, so how can you know if you have a strong appetite whether this is the result of addiction or just a "natural appetite?"

Regardless, you can't get around social taboos and judgement. Whether Tiger Woods is addicted to sex or just has a strong appetite, he's become pretty much permanently stigmatized. What's more, public examples like the one made of him send out a signal to everyone to police their sexual behavior and not to divulge their feelings and desires when these make them susceptible to stigma or social judgment.

I haven't read as much of it as I probably should have to be discussing it so much, but I didn't see anyone coming out and defending Tiger Woods or sexual freedom for this kind of behavior. Surely there are still people who long to express this kind of sexuality, but why don't the speak out? Probably for the same reason someone in a relationship hides their potentially embarrassing secrets even though doing so causes them to live somewhat fictionally on the outside.

In posting this thread, I was sort of interested in whether some people had this problem figured out and had absolutely no trouble being open about even the most taboo desires and behaviors, but I don't get the idea from the responses that anyone really is. It's always more comfortable to talk about "a friend" with regard to something ridiculously bizarre like bestiality instead of being open with your partner about something like the fact that you fantasized about sex with her sister (for example). Even as I type that hypothetical case, I have to laugh because to treat it as a serious issue would make it too uncomfortable to admit. So maybe it's just my own repression that I'm dealing with, but this seems like a general cultural thing to me, no?


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