Near the End of A PhD and Have No Job

Astro_Dude

Update -

I was fortunate enough that I was able to find some temporary work between my graduation and the end of the year to keep my *** afloat. I applied for hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds of jobs, and never got anything past phone interviews.

In the end, I got a job (non-permanent) doing much the same work I did as a grad. It pays ok, and I'm at least enjoying the environment. I have to count whatever blessings I have though I guess until I can manage something better.

The fact is, industry has no interest in me, and I'm going to try to learn a compiling language while I'm here. It's the only real way to get more interesting to them. Also, maybe there will be a change in Washington to actually make hiring in industry actually happen again.

I want to thank everyone for their support here through this dark time. I am at least going to survive for a *little* while...

-AD

Here's how it works.

HR: Well, you're clearly smart enough to handle this position, tell us why you want to change fields. Ok, *other questions*. Sounds good, I'll pass this along to the next person, you should hear back in about two weeks.

OPTION A:
*it was a lie, not passed along*

OPTION B:
*passed along*
"Hiring Manager" : Oh, well, screw this person, they can't hit the ground running immediately. NEXT

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There's a huge glut of programmers. You have to be extraordinary if that is your only skill. The thing we *do* have an advantage on is we can do the scientific programming that a lot of industry needs. That is, a lot of CSCI majors apparently don't have the math skills physics majors do, and certainly don't have the physics understanding we do. So it will help if you want to go into coding a missile or something.

jk

While this is true in a lot of cases, it also depends on the company and their needs. I once got a job because the hiring manager was convinced that I could learn the skills necessary to be a developer even though my work history did not include development.
Another example: I just got a gig working with the Ruby programming language - I know zero Ruby at the moment. The hiring manager was convinced by my history, references and whiteboard interview that I can be productive in Ruby fairly quickly

Astronuc

Fortran was adapted to OOP in 1990.
http://www.clear.rice.edu/mech517/F9...EC_oop_f90.pdf
http://trs-new.jpl.nasa.gov/dspace/b.../1/97-0004.pdf

There is some evidence to suggest that OOP Fortran is more efficient than C++.

ParticleGrl

One caveat- most of the people I know using fortran code (which is academic HEP) are using it for legacy reasons, so its big chunks of fortran 77, not fortran 90. So its not just that they are coding fortran, they are coding on obsolete fortran.

bpatrick

I know this might not be of any help to you, since I pretty much browsed the thread, but I have a few friends who have had horrible luck coming out of their PhDs trying to get jobs in applied math, astrophysics, and theoretical physics.

Becca ended up taking a year off and spending 80+ hours a week learning stats/finance stuff and passing 3 actuarial exams in her first year post PhD (PDE theory was her dissertation subject). She's now doing well as an actuary somewhere near Orlando.

After a year looking for work/post-docs (after a PhD in *i think* theoretical high energy particle physics) and no luck, Saad spent a few months learning MCAT material, took those, joined the army, went through OCS then into their medical program. He's almost done with his MD, and liking the field, the atmosphere, the fact that he got loads of his undergrad debt covered, and med school comped.

Umm, Josh (PhD in astrophysics sometime back around 2007 and not being able to find a job ... he was mainly looking for something in defense/government since he's a Bethesda native), got a job as a teller at a bank in Baltimore about 6 months post-PhD and has very quickly moved up over the years. I think they made him shift supervisor after 2-3 months, then assistant manager within the first year. He's now some regional loan manager / pseudo-quant. I think he's liking it and doesn't really mind that he had to start at "the bottom" right after he was done with his doctorate.

just some random stories of 3 of my friends/acquaintances and how they've dealt with not finding jobs in their fields post-PhD. Good luck though with getting something in your field, you still have time, but there are definitely options.

twofish-quant

HR departments are extremely busy and they forget. Typically, you give someone with no-science experience a set of keywords, and if they see the keyword on the resume, then they pass it on.

It's also easier to work it the other way. If you have numerical skills in Fortran, spend a month programming some basic C++ and you can add that to your resume.

The other thing is that it's assumed (and usually assumed correctly) that if you can handle C++, you can handle anything.

You'd be surprised. Something that I have seen happen is that someone with something unusual on their resume gets an interview because of that unusual job.

twofish-quant

Yup. Unfortunately unlike straight fortran, no one seems to have gotten OOP Fortran to interoperate with all of the other OOP languages out there.

I wouldn't be surprised if Fortran objects were more efficient than C++ objects, but I'd be extremely surprised if this applies to templated C++. The thing about templates is that you can get rid of the pointer call which allows you to vectorize loops.

chill_factor

Just a question:

I noticed that most of the job questions here are about hardcore theoretical physics, and how they should get jobs involving programming and finance.

However, there's alot of physicists who do experimental work in things like condensed matter, who do not have a rigorous theoretical background and instead use commercial instruments to make measurements and the extent of programming required is Excel and maybe a bit of Mathematica.

How should experimentalists sell their skills, especially if its in a non-semiconductor materials field (biologicals, polymers, superconductors)?

Locrian

Just look at the things the company you're applying to needs. Characterization and testing are common ones - what type have you done and can do? Are you comfortable using/maintaining SEM/AFM etc?

Look at what projects you've started and completed and make them applicable to the work the employer does.

elkement

I was once in the position you have described - I went from superconducting thin films (prototypes for microwave applications) to steel (samples from production). None of the characterization methods or software tools was exactly the same.

I used the following selling approach that worked out fine:

I emphasized the general approach in characterizing high-tech materials, that is: how to organize standardized measurements (you could call this "quality management"), consolidate results gained from different types of measurements (electrical, microstructure...) and use an efficient approach to compare the results with production parameters.
Efficiency is key - I believe that in industry you have to prove that you are capable to use tools most efficiently without "re-inventing the wheel" (programming or developing stuff from scratch this is already available - because tools are likely to be cheaper than you labour costs).

There is a lot of menial and organizational stuff involved, such as setting up the measurement process, creating sample forms in paper or in digital form, involving the lab technicians, thus motivating other people... You need to prove that you are a hands-on guy and not an "absent-minded professor who wants to do deal with real research only" (This is a bias you can sometimes find in industry and I personally tend to say it is not unjustified sometimes.) I was "forced" to do also project management and controlling at the university -finally this help a lot to underpin my "down-to-earth / real live" approach.

In addition I pointed out the similarities in measurement techniques, such as TEM vs. SEM, X-Ray diffraction versus TEM dark field, sample preparation using ion mills vs. sample preparation using laser ablation etc. I sold myself as a physicist with diverse experience in different measurement techniques that would allow me to use any related technique.

chill_factor

Will you only get to do analytical work? Or are there other positions?

elkement

My post was probably misleading - I did not intend to say that typical job descriptions comprise measurements only. However, typically you would work on the development of a new product or optimization of an existing one. When developing new stuff for industry, standardized measurements, documentation and organizational stuff might effectively be what you do most of the time.
The significance of "compliance" with industry standards and legal requirements and related (buerocratic) efforts is still growing and so is the "paper work factor" in traditional engineering areas. The paper work factor typically also increases with the size of a company.

In terms of career path, you typically start as a specialist contributing to a project and move to a (project) management role later.

chill_factor

Thank you!

I'm fine with doing paperwork and management. I just don't want to be doing analytical work all day, I would go for analytical chemistry if I did, since it's just... easier in all aspects...