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Father puts .45 rounds into teenage girl's laptop...

by Char. Limit
Tags: father, girl, laptop, puts, rounds, teenage
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Pythagorean
#181
Feb14-12, 06:25 PM
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He could have beat his chest and stomped around for all I care. It's still a bad demonstration for your kids... Integral has pretty much hit the same main point I did: lead by example: that's the bottom line. Demands are useless if you're already at war with your teen. If you're at war with your teen, you've already messed up.
Hurkyl
#182
Feb14-12, 06:41 PM
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Quote Quote by Integral View Post
In my eyes the use of a gun in this fashion is a very thinly veiled threat. He used his weapon on an inanimate object for this "crime". For what "crime" will he use it on an animate object. If you make him mad enough will he shoot the offender?
No offense, but I think this is ridiculous. I strongly suspect this attitude is a product of villainizing guns and gun owners, rather than having any sort of sound basis in reality.

There is a huge difference between destroying an object and killing someone in a berserker rampage. I can't imagine there is any credible threat, except in the case where the person already has abusive tendencies or other edge cases.

And to be a veiled threat actually requires the person to take some action to make the implication.


As I said before if you have to discipline a teenager you are 10yrs to late....
Whether or not it's true, one cannot react to a situation by taking actions 10 years in the past; they have to take actions in the present.
Pythagorean
#183
Feb14-12, 07:09 PM
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Quote Quote by Hurkyl View Post
It's hard to know, especially since I feel like you've been almost deliberately vague and resisting attempts to clarify.
What are you still confused about? I'll be happy to clarify it. If you ask a wrong question, there's not much I can do. Most of your questions have been wrong so far; I thought you were doing it intentionally to make some point.
lostcauses10x
#184
Feb14-12, 07:54 PM
P: 94
And what if all of this was just staged??
Char. Limit
#185
Feb14-12, 08:06 PM
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Quote Quote by lostcauses10x View Post
And what if all of this was just staged??
Then the last 12 pages were a giant commentary on America.
MarcoD
#186
Feb14-12, 09:45 PM
P: 98
Father -1
Pythagorean
#187
Feb14-12, 09:46 PM
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Quote Quote by lostcauses10x View Post
And what if all of this was just staged??
It would still have the same repercussions on the outside world as long as they remain ignorant to the truth: some people will use it to justify their parenting behavior, others would use it to criticize what they see as bad parenting behavior.
Integral
#188
Feb14-12, 10:01 PM
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Quote Quote by Hurkyl View Post
No offense, but I think this is ridiculous. I strongly suspect this attitude is a product of villainizing guns and gun owners, rather than having any sort of sound basis in reality.

There is a huge difference between destroying an object and killing someone in a berserker rampage. I can't imagine there is any credible threat, except in the case where the person already has abusive tendencies or other edge cases.

And to be a veiled threat actually requires the person to take some action to make the implication.



Whether or not it's true, one cannot react to a situation by taking actions 10 years in the past; they have to take actions in the present.
Isn't shooting a laptop an action?


That is why I said that this shows a history of bad parenting. The best way to get past it is to stop being a bad parent. Instead this fellow has taken bad parenting to a whole new level. The connection between personalities and possessions is very deep in our culture. To shoot this girlís possession is to shoot the girl, that is the message he is sending. This is not disciplining the girl it is sending a very deadly threat. Dishonor me and I WILL shoot you. This not the action of a parent it is the action of a dictator.

It is simply inappropriate to use any form of, or representation of, deadly force in a family setting.

The sole purpose of a gun is to kill. When you are shooting tin cans, or bottles, or targets or what ever it is practicing to kill.

BTW, I grew up hunting and shooting. I have killed. I cannot remember when I first squeezed a trigger, I was taught safe gun handling about the same time I learned to ride a bike. So donít give me no crap about being anti gun.

I am all for guns handled and used in an approptiate manner. Again using a gun in a disiplinary action is simply inappropriate.
Pythagorean
#189
Feb15-12, 12:16 AM
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the gun is just a multiplier. Let's say you have risk (r):

r = y + yb + r0, y>0,b>0 (b = 1,2,3,....,n)

where y = bad attitude, b = gun, r0 = background noise (chance of unintentional harm)

four generic cases (besides (y,b) = (0,0):

1) 0<y<<1, b>0
when y = 0, it doesn't matter what b is. there's no risk of getting shot.

2) y>1, b = 0
people you want to avoid; they're still dangerous even without a gun.

3) y>1, b > 0
same people as above, but now they have a device that allows them a longer range and more deadly consequences with much less physical effort.

4) y~1, b>0
what we have in the video.

There's several sides to the discipline, but no matter what side you take, whenever you respond to negative behavior, the rule is y << 1. Act, but don't react.

This is the fundamental important rule, but if you still want to optimize (i.e. generate the best emotionally stable background for your kid) then you can only reward good behavior and not punish bad behavior (which can often be turned into a reward by the child, making it a positive reinforcement to bad behavior). Sometimes you have to punish for their own immediate safety (or for yours or others) but it still doesn't have the long-term payoffs. Mostly though, you want to let nature punish them and continue to be the person they rely on for help when they fall on tough times, unless you think they should be on their own of course, that's your call; but they WILL make bad decisions. They will make sure you don't find out about them if you're a y~1. If that y~1 has a gun when he demonstrates his y~1'ness, he's going to raise the shock value. You may feel the urge to trivialize shock value, but think about how that might affect his daughter. It's not even worth the risk that you'll traumatize your daughter.

@ Hyrkyl: the point isn't to reduce b... that's where you're confused. The point is to reduce y. To educate parents about the right way to manage conflict. I don't care about gun laws, I care about social progress. That doesn't happen through making laws, but through spreading ideas.
Adyssa
#190
Feb15-12, 04:56 AM
P: 188
I just saw this :S

My opinion in few words, is that this is poor parenting. The kid sounds like a brat, but the father is not reacting well and just reinforcing the resentment felt by the daughter.

Communication people! Sheesh!
Constantinos
#191
Feb15-12, 05:33 AM
P: 78
lol this thread has gone so far!

Why do you try to analyze an incident you have no knowledge of how it came to be this way? All you have is a video, testimony from the father(probably biased), the daughter's message (definitely biased) and the fact that police and CPS found nothing wrong (and the fact that the daughter was eventually offered a job.)

Now, from this information only, how can one criticize years of parenting? What practical result could come out of trying such a thing? You could say the parenting was bad or good or whatever, but where do you base this? IN JUST ONE INCIDENT??!
MarcoD
#192
Feb15-12, 07:18 AM
P: 98
Everybody knows that you use guns for hunting, sports, or maybe self defense. Otherwise you keep them locked up very far away. They are not toys and you never go around waving them without proper cause. As far as the raising kids go, I agree, nobody knows nothing.
netgypsy
#193
Feb15-12, 08:45 AM
P: 239
Long term effects of this type of behavior

In general

The daughter will marry a man who responds to frustrating situations in this manner

A son will behave in this manner when he is frustrated because it is the norm for him.

The fact that the daughter would behave in this manner already shows a serious lack of respect. The fact that the father would not just confiscate the computer shows that he's totally over the top in a situation he can' handle.

Why not just shut down the internet in the house? Unplug the router and so on, take the car keys and the smart phone or cut off service to the smart phone. Then sit down when both are cooled off and figure out what's going on. And where's mom in this situation?

the daughter "dared" hare father and he took the dare. Really an adult response.

Yes kids can drive you crazy but as long as you are feeding and providing shelter and a care, YOU have the power.
MarcoD
#194
Feb15-12, 09:38 AM
P: 98
Nonsense, you don't have power over kids, or rather, teenagers. If you're lucky, they are sensible, and you have a chance not to mess up. Otherwise, you're out of luck.
Hobin
#195
Feb15-12, 10:25 AM
P: 194
I was going to post my opinion, but, given my personal experiences, it would be very hard for me to stay rational while doing so. In fact, even reading this thread and seeing so many people agree with this dad's 'parenting' is somewhat painful for me. Let's just say that I disagree with the dad.
netgypsy
#196
Feb15-12, 11:56 AM
P: 239
Oh yes you have power over teens. Teens can be bribed. They don't do well with threats because they are at that age where it's "the principle of the thing" that matters. But BRIBERY - OH YES. And bribery combined with something like losing the computer or cell phone is REAL POWER. BUT it depends. Can't bribe a girl to stop seeing a boyfriend. You have to compromise. You can bribe the boyfriend. I remember a father whose daughter was determined to marry a guy they thought was a real loser. The dad went out and bought an expensive new car. He told the daughter that if she married him, this was their wedding gift and they would have no further financial support. If she didn't, the car was hers and he'd pay for her college education. IF the guy was decent at all you know he'd tell her, go to college. I'll wait. But regardless, the girl didn't marry him.

When a family member was a teen her mother told her if you will wait until you are 21 to drink and smoke I will buy a carton of any cigarettes you want and a bottle of any alcoholic beverage you want. She waited. It was a reasonable request.

Another was given a nice car and the promise of $2000 cash if he didn't drink for two years. He agreed and kept his side of the bargain as did the parent. (He's now middle aged and said that was probably the only thing that would have stopped him from drinking as he was 21 (college student) at the time so could drink legally BUT he had a drinking problem that caused a serious accident so he had negative experience from it also but the carrot helped a LOT. And it was his dad who made the bargain with him and his dad gave up his personal car and drove a real piece of crap with no air conditioning and no radio and no heater, so this made quite an impression.

You ALWAYS have power over kids. Parents are more difficult. Dads will listen to daughters. Moms are nearly impossible to get to do anything they don't decide to do on their own. Sons do better than daughters with moms but sons don't do well. When it comes to stopping dangerous behavior in a mom, good luck. Because they sacrifice so much when their kids are younger and their husbands are trying to succeed in a difficult situation that by the time this is over, they'll do what they want to do.

And yes there are always exceptions to the rule but the sensible, logical moms don't indulge in really harmful behaviors in the first place so the ones that remain - if I knew the answer to that one I'd be a millionaire.

But remember KIDS CAN BE BRIBED regardless of age, IF the request is reasonable.
Hobin
#197
Feb15-12, 12:05 PM
P: 194
Quote Quote by netgypsy View Post
But remember KIDS CAN BE BRIBED regardless of age, IF the request is reasonable.
A less suggestive statement would be "*people* can be bribed regardless of age, if the request is reasonable." This doesn't apply only to kids.
MarcoD
#198
Feb15-12, 12:28 PM
P: 98
Quote Quote by netgypsy View Post
You ALWAYS have power over kids. Parents are more difficult. Dads will listen to daughters. Moms are nearly impossible to get to do anything they don't decide to do on their own. Sons do better than daughters with moms but sons don't do well. When it comes to stopping dangerous behavior in a mom, good luck. Because they sacrifice so much when their kids are younger and their husbands are trying to succeed in a difficult situation that by the time this is over, they'll do what they want to do.
Uh? IMO: Man are you in for a number of surprises.


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