Register to reply

Would you eat brainless animals?

by feathermoon
Tags: animals, brainless
Share this thread:
megin
#19
Feb18-12, 04:25 AM
P: 4
Quote Quote by Evo View Post
The term "free range" is pretty meaningless. All it means is that some chickens might have access to an open door for 5 minutes. If you're paying more, you're more than likely getting ripped off.
I'm not from the USA. In my country, "free-range", by law, means the chickens freely run around an outdoor range for at least 8 hours per day, and are generally corn fed and able to hunt for insects. Usually, free range chicken farmers will also raise slower growing breeds rather than the faster growing breeds used for mass production. All these differences result in meat that looks, feels and tastes very different to the meat that is produced for, and sold to the masses. I'm also fortunate in that I can trace the meat that I buy back to the farm where it was reared and slaughtered. Sure, I pay a little more for all this, but I feel it's worth it.
Pythagorean
#20
Feb18-12, 04:41 AM
PF Gold
Pythagorean's Avatar
P: 4,292
Even in th US, many free-range farmers actually allow their chickens to range several hours a day. You should know the farm, though, because they can get away with it if they don't care about farm image.
technician
#21
Feb18-12, 03:01 PM
P: 1,506
would you eat vegetables if it was realised that they had a sentient existence.
Is anyone prepared to recognise that vegetables respond to external influences such as sound, light, physical touch etc. Sometimes these are more obvious than what is shown by 'animals'... or eggs
Biosyn
#22
Feb18-12, 07:05 PM
Biosyn's Avatar
P: 112
Well, I don't think I could be able to tell the difference. So yea..I would eat it.
MrRagnarok
#23
Feb22-12, 04:45 PM
P: 16
What about lobsters? They do not have a central brain per se but rather a simple neural network that allows its body to respond to the environment. Does this constitute a 'brainless' animal?
Borek
#24
Feb22-12, 05:05 PM
Admin
Borek's Avatar
P: 23,727
I will be eaten by brainless animals, unless I will be cremated.
HallsofIvy
#25
Feb22-12, 05:13 PM
Math
Emeritus
Sci Advisor
Thanks
PF Gold
P: 39,682
Quote Quote by MrRagnarok View Post
What about lobsters? They do not have a central brain per se but rather a simple neural network that allows its body to respond to the environment. Does this constitute a 'brainless' animal?
clams, oysters, ... There are a lot of brainless animals and a lot of people eat them.
Ryan_m_b
#26
Feb22-12, 05:14 PM
Mentor
Ryan_m_b's Avatar
P: 5,490
I think the general point is "would you eat a lobotomised animal" rather than one that naturally does not have a brain.

However the ethical consideration of "can it feel pain, emotions and consciousness" can be somewhat independent of the question does it "have a brain?"
CaptFirePanda
#27
Feb22-12, 05:17 PM
P: 27
Quote Quote by megin View Post
It would be nice if everyone could afford to buy the free range corn fed chickens that get to cluck around in the sun all day, but it's never going to happen unless people stop buying the cheap stuff and demand better quality produce.
It would also be nice if we had limitless amounts of arable/produceable farmland in order for those chickens to run around on all day long. Sadly though, agricultural land is at a premium in most parts of the world (as it is squeezed out by development). Thus, high density food production is becoming more and more essential (especially as population numbers rise).

I don't think that shelling out more for better quality food is going to necessarily get you the animals that frolic in the sun on a regular basis. More and more, you'll likely just get access to meat that has been handled better and "tastes" better.

Also, I guess I'd eat a brainless animal. There are some fundamental moral issues around this, but for those animals which currently exist in only a domesticated setting (eg. the animals I currently eat), they have basically been genetically-engineered by people over the course of many years.
Pythagorean
#28
Feb22-12, 06:24 PM
PF Gold
Pythagorean's Avatar
P: 4,292
Quote Quote by Borek View Post
I will be eaten by brainless animals, unless I will be cremated.
Circle of life!
questionpost
#29
Feb22-12, 06:25 PM
P: 198
Why not just manufacture the materials we need in the form we need rather than all this farming? Farming is just a little bit more convenient is all, but if plants have been doing it for millions of years I'm sure it isn't that bad.
Also, bacterium are brainless, but is it proven that even single-celled have a measurement of 0 consciousness? This brainless animal thing wouldn't solve it in that case anyway because there aren't necessarily cells working together to create a grander consciousness but they would still just remain is tiny parts of consciousness.
It kind of brings me to the point that you can't quantify and directly measure consciousness so there's really no way to measure if something actually has consciousness or not.
megin
#30
Feb23-12, 10:26 AM
P: 4
Quote Quote by CaptFirePanda View Post
It would also be nice if we had limitless amounts of arable/produceable farmland in order for those chickens to run around on all day long.
I don't believe that land is necessarily an issue. I think it comes down to how much demand there is, and how much profit can be made from satisfying that demand. For example, supermarkets now sell a huge range of fresh organic produce, and many other food and non-food organically sourced products. There are entire chains of supermarkets and independent stores now devoted to selling only organic items. Why? Because since organic produce was introduced to the market some years back, demand has increased dramatically and it has become economically viable to produce and manufacture these products. If there is land enough to supply that demand, then I can't see land being an issue if more people decided they only want to purchase and eat free-range eggs and poultry.

On the subject of free-range eggs: many supermarkets (in Europe especially) now only sell free-range eggs and products made using free-range eggs. Why? Because of the demand, and of course because the margins for free-range eggs are about twice as high as they are for battery eggs.

Quote Quote by CaptFirePanda View Post
Sadly though, agricultural land is at a premium in most parts of the world (as it is squeezed out by development). Thus, high density food production is becoming more and more essential (especially as population numbers rise).
While it is true that there is limited land suitable for crop production in some parts of the word, on a global level, there is still ample land available should it be required in the future - not that accessing all of that land will ever happen/be needed or be easily/environmentally friendly to do so. While some countries may feel the bite of land shortages, overall, most future growth in crop production will stem from increases in cropping intensity and from improved yields, and not just from an expansion in arable land. To put in into perspective, since the early 1960's a mere 15% of world crop production was a result of an increase in arable land, the other 85% was a result of yield improvements. Although the population will obviously continue to rise, overall, worldwide population growth has slowed down, and so has the demand for crops. I do agree that high density food production is becoming more essential and more popular.

Quote Quote by CaptFirePanda View Post
I don't think that shelling out more for better quality food is going to necessarily get you the animals that frolic in the sun on a regular basis. More and more, you'll likely just get access to meat that has been handled better and "tastes" better.
What exactly do you mean by "handled better"?

When I buy free-range produce, I'm assured by law that what I am buying fits the idea of what I am buying.

Forgive me for going off on a tangent here, but this is a subject of great interest to me.
feathermoon
#31
Feb26-12, 05:32 AM
P: 60
Quote Quote by MrRagnarok View Post
What about lobsters? They do not have a central brain per se but rather a simple neural network that allows its body to respond to the environment. Does this constitute a 'brainless' animal?
Actually, yea. I draw my veggie line at insects. Arthopods have just fused ganglia, right? I tell myself this anyway: I haven't and probably won't be eating crab or grasshoppers anytime soon.
vertyu
#32
Mar15-12, 04:10 PM
P: 17
Sounds quite creepy. I'm not sure if I'd eat. I hope that bacteria, or, maybe plants could be developed that produce aminoacids cheaply. I would eat it even it was some strange, tastless gooey. As long as it's cheap, I'd eat it. Add some spices and it's good for me.
Ryan_m_b
#33
Mar15-12, 04:27 PM
Mentor
Ryan_m_b's Avatar
P: 5,490
Quote Quote by vertyu View Post
Sounds quite creepy. I'm not sure if I'd eat. I hope that bacteria, or, maybe plants could be developed that produce aminoacids cheaply. I would eat it even it was some strange, tastless gooey. As long as it's cheap, I'd eat it. Add some spices and it's good for me.
If amino acids were all we needed we would have invented near-limitless artificial food decades ago.
vertyu
#34
Mar15-12, 05:10 PM
P: 17
Quote Quote by Ryan_m_b View Post
If amino acids were all we needed we would have invented near-limitless artificial food decades ago.
Well, if you eat relatively cheap plant-based foods and aminoacids that are not present in these plants, then aren't you getting all the nutrients you need?
Ryan_m_b
#35
Mar15-12, 05:21 PM
Mentor
Ryan_m_b's Avatar
P: 5,490
Quote Quote by vertyu View Post
Well, if you eat relatively cheap plant-based foods and aminoacids that are not present in these plants, then aren't you getting all the nutrients you need?
No, there are only 20 types of amino acids and all they form are proteins. Human nutrition has incredibly complex requirements that haven't even been completely identified. The best way to remain healthy is to eat a varied diet.
vertyu
#36
Mar15-12, 05:45 PM
P: 17
Quote Quote by Ryan_m_b View Post
No, there are only 20 types of amino acids and all they form are proteins. Human nutrition has incredibly complex requirements that haven't even been completely identified. The best way to remain healthy is to eat a varied diet.
I know about 20 amino acids. Most of them are either produced by your body, or are present in cheap plants. Just few of them are present only in meat or eggs/milk, but not in cheap plants. If you think that I thought that our mammalian organisms require only aminoacids, you're very wrong.

The question is, do you really need meat, if you eat a variety of plant foods, vegan foods, plus pure aminoacids that you need? For example you get all the plants, and plant-based foods/nutrients that can be produced relatively cheap. The few remaining aminoacids are eaten in pure form, unlike meat, that contains in addition to these aminoacids a lot of other nutrients, vitamins, minerals, fats etc.

I mean, can you eat cheap vegan foods with pure, artificially produced aminoacids, and remain healthy?


Register to reply

Related Discussions
Can animals train man? Social Sciences 3
How do cougars raise their young Biology 4
Communication among animals Biology 1
It's TOOOO BAD, they are not animals... General Discussion 0
Go with prehistoric animals Biology 3