Register to reply

Godel's theorem, Hawking and GUT

by dpa
Tags: godel, hawking, theorem
Share this thread:
dpa
#1
Mar5-12, 09:55 PM
P: 149
Hi all,


Stephen Hawking extended the Godel's Theorem to physics and hence expressed that single TOE does not exist.
So, does that mean that single GUT cannot exist as well? I guess not, in a sense that GUT might not necessarily mean TOE.

I just want opinions.

Sincerely
DPA
Phys.Org News Partner Physics news on Phys.org
Engineers develop new sensor to detect tiny individual nanoparticles
Tiny particles have big potential in debate over nuclear proliferation
Ray tracing and beyond
tom.stoer
#2
Mar5-12, 11:54 PM
Sci Advisor
P: 5,451
strange;

I would say that a ToE can exist, but that we are not able to construct a proof
Demystifier
#3
Mar6-12, 02:34 AM
Sci Advisor
Demystifier's Avatar
P: 4,612
Quote Quote by dpa View Post
Stephen Hawking extended the Godel's Theorem to physics.
Can you provide a reference or link for that claim?

martinbn
#4
Mar6-12, 03:38 AM
P: 355
Godel's theorem, Hawking and GUT

Quote Quote by Demystifier View Post
Can you provide a reference or link for that claim?
Of course, post number 1 is where that claim was made.
Demystifier
#5
Mar6-12, 04:09 AM
Sci Advisor
Demystifier's Avatar
P: 4,612
Quote Quote by martinbn View Post
Of course, post number 1 is where that claim was made.
Sure, but I want to see what EXACTLY Hawking said in HIS own words. Because in the form dpa expressed it sounds as something said by a crackpot.
martinbn
#6
Mar6-12, 06:01 AM
P: 355
Quote Quote by Demystifier View Post
Sure, but I want to see what EXACTLY Hawking said in HIS own words. Because in the form dpa expressed it sounds as something said by a crackpot.
Yes, that's why i was joking that the first to make that claim was him.
dpa
#7
Mar6-12, 07:26 AM
P: 149
check this. I might have got it wrong. Help me.

damtp.cam.ac.uk/events/strings02/dirac/hawking/
friend
#8
Mar6-12, 07:43 AM
P: 982
Quote Quote by dpa View Post
Hi all,


Stephen Hawking extended the Godel's Theorem to physics and hence expressed that single TOE does not exist.
So, does that mean that single GUT cannot exist as well? I guess not, in a sense that GUT might not necessarily mean TOE.

I just want opinions.

Sincerely
DPA
I doubt we're going to find a GUT until we do find a TOE. Is it even humanly possible to generate the energies needed to test a GUT?

Obviously, the goal of physics is not to find every mathematical statement that's true. So Godel's incompleteness theorem does not apply.
Demystifier
#9
Mar6-12, 09:03 AM
Sci Advisor
Demystifier's Avatar
P: 4,612
Quote Quote by dpa View Post
damtp.cam.ac.uk/events/strings02/dirac/hawking/
Yes, that's it. It is nice to see that Hawking is not a crackpot.
Namely, he does not EXTEND the Godel's theorem, but merely uses it as an analogy illustrating the (certainly not new) idea that the final physical theory of everything might not exist.
dpa
#10
Mar6-12, 09:14 AM
P: 149
ah sorry
my word was misleading.
MathematicalPhysicist
#11
Mar6-12, 10:44 PM
P: 3,243
What does a theory of everything even mean?

I recall reading that Lord Kelvin said at the start of the 1900's that the field of physics is done, i.e nearly completed to describe every natural phenomena. He didn't account for the two revolutions that followed, QM and GR.


Register to reply

Related Discussions
On Godel theorem Set Theory, Logic, Probability, Statistics 38
Godel's Theorem General Math 8
Godel's Theorem General Math 6
Godel's Theorem General Math 2
Godel's Theorem General Discussion 15