Godel's theorem, Hawking and GUT


by dpa
Tags: godel, hawking, theorem
dpa
dpa is offline
#1
Mar5-12, 09:55 PM
P: 149
Hi all,


Stephen Hawking extended the Godel's Theorem to physics and hence expressed that single TOE does not exist.
So, does that mean that single GUT cannot exist as well? I guess not, in a sense that GUT might not necessarily mean TOE.

I just want opinions.

Sincerely
DPA
Phys.Org News Partner Physics news on Phys.org
Physicists consider implications of recent revelations about the universe's first light
Vacuum ultraviolet lamp of the future created in Japan
Grasp of SQUIDs dynamics facilitates eavesdropping
tom.stoer
tom.stoer is offline
#2
Mar5-12, 11:54 PM
Sci Advisor
P: 5,307
strange;

I would say that a ToE can exist, but that we are not able to construct a proof
Demystifier
Demystifier is offline
#3
Mar6-12, 02:34 AM
Sci Advisor
Demystifier's Avatar
P: 4,496
Quote Quote by dpa View Post
Stephen Hawking extended the Godel's Theorem to physics.
Can you provide a reference or link for that claim?

martinbn
martinbn is offline
#4
Mar6-12, 03:38 AM
P: 344

Godel's theorem, Hawking and GUT


Quote Quote by Demystifier View Post
Can you provide a reference or link for that claim?
Of course, post number 1 is where that claim was made.
Demystifier
Demystifier is offline
#5
Mar6-12, 04:09 AM
Sci Advisor
Demystifier's Avatar
P: 4,496
Quote Quote by martinbn View Post
Of course, post number 1 is where that claim was made.
Sure, but I want to see what EXACTLY Hawking said in HIS own words. Because in the form dpa expressed it sounds as something said by a crackpot.
martinbn
martinbn is offline
#6
Mar6-12, 06:01 AM
P: 344
Quote Quote by Demystifier View Post
Sure, but I want to see what EXACTLY Hawking said in HIS own words. Because in the form dpa expressed it sounds as something said by a crackpot.
Yes, that's why i was joking that the first to make that claim was him.
dpa
dpa is offline
#7
Mar6-12, 07:26 AM
P: 149
check this. I might have got it wrong. Help me.

damtp.cam.ac.uk/events/strings02/dirac/hawking/
friend
friend is offline
#8
Mar6-12, 07:43 AM
P: 962
Quote Quote by dpa View Post
Hi all,


Stephen Hawking extended the Godel's Theorem to physics and hence expressed that single TOE does not exist.
So, does that mean that single GUT cannot exist as well? I guess not, in a sense that GUT might not necessarily mean TOE.

I just want opinions.

Sincerely
DPA
I doubt we're going to find a GUT until we do find a TOE. Is it even humanly possible to generate the energies needed to test a GUT?

Obviously, the goal of physics is not to find every mathematical statement that's true. So Godel's incompleteness theorem does not apply.
Demystifier
Demystifier is offline
#9
Mar6-12, 09:03 AM
Sci Advisor
Demystifier's Avatar
P: 4,496
Quote Quote by dpa View Post
damtp.cam.ac.uk/events/strings02/dirac/hawking/
Yes, that's it. It is nice to see that Hawking is not a crackpot.
Namely, he does not EXTEND the Godel's theorem, but merely uses it as an analogy illustrating the (certainly not new) idea that the final physical theory of everything might not exist.
dpa
dpa is offline
#10
Mar6-12, 09:14 AM
P: 149
ah sorry
my word was misleading.
MathematicalPhysicist
MathematicalPhysicist is offline
#11
Mar6-12, 10:44 PM
P: 3,177
What does a theory of everything even mean?

I recall reading that Lord Kelvin said at the start of the 1900's that the field of physics is done, i.e nearly completed to describe every natural phenomena. He didn't account for the two revolutions that followed, QM and GR.


Register to reply

Related Discussions
On Godel theorem Set Theory, Logic, Probability, Statistics 38
Godel's Theorem General Math 8
Godel's Theorem General Math 6
Godel's Theorem General Math 2
Godel's Theorem General Discussion 15