Godel's theorem, Hawking and GUT

dpa

Hi all,


Stephen Hawking extended the Godel's Theorem to physics and hence expressed that single TOE does not exist.
So, does that mean that single GUT cannot exist as well? I guess not, in a sense that GUT might not necessarily mean TOE.

I just want opinions.

Sincerely
DPA

tom.stoer

strange;

I would say that a ToE can exist, but that we are not able to construct a proof

Demystifier

Can you provide a reference or link for that claim?

martinbn

Of course, post number 1 is where that claim was made.

Demystifier

Sure, but I want to see what EXACTLY Hawking said in HIS own words. Because in the form dpa expressed it sounds as something said by a crackpot.

martinbn

Yes, that's why i was joking that the first to make that claim was him.

dpa

check this. I might have got it wrong. Help me.

damtp.cam.ac.uk/events/strings02/dirac/hawking/

friend

I doubt we're going to find a GUT until we do find a TOE. Is it even humanly possible to generate the energies needed to test a GUT?

Obviously, the goal of physics is not to find every mathematical statement that's true. So Godel's incompleteness theorem does not apply.

Demystifier

Yes, that's it. It is nice to see that Hawking is not a crackpot.
Namely, he does not EXTEND the Godel's theorem, but merely uses it as an analogy illustrating the (certainly not new) idea that the final physical theory of everything might not exist.

dpa

ah sorry
my word was misleading.

MathematicalPhysicist

What does a theory of everything even mean?

I recall reading that Lord Kelvin said at the start of the 1900's that the field of physics is done, i.e nearly completed to describe every natural phenomena. He didn't account for the two revolutions that followed, QM and GR.