Alternative Medicine: Misplaced Faith and Its Costs

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In summary: The "clutching at straws" phenomenon...Mistrust and skepticism of the medical and pharma industry...Advertising, and lack of regulation with respect to it...The Dunning-Kruger effect...Two things to add to this: Lack of understanding/communication; this is partly a failing of the education system and partly a failing of the scientific community to not play a bigger role in rectifying the problem (the Royal Society in the UK is starting to pay attention to the latter). People aren't taught what exactly science is, if I was in charge of education then all science classes would include a module on the scientific method every year so that everyone knows that it's a process and not a
  • #1
WiFO215
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The following, rather depressing, article from the Economist highlights the growth of alternative medicine currently.

Supporters of alternative medicine have two additional forces in their favour. Conventional health care has some clear failings. As Dr Weil points out, America’s health-care system excels at treating sick patients but is miserable at keeping them well. The pharmaceutical industry struggles to create good, long-term treatments for pain and other chronic conditions. Many doctors are hurried or come across as unsympathetic. Alternative practitioners spend time with patients, asking about not just their medical histories but their lifestyles. They may emphasise nutrition and exercise. Many such treatments, especially the hands-on ones, are soothing. It is unsurprising if patients feel better.

Well, obviously one should try to keep a healthy diet and get regular exercise! I get very frustrated when people take this to the other extreme and say things like "big pharma companies don't want you to know, but homeopathy can cure everything". I know plenty of people who practice this at the cost of forgoing regular medicine altogether because "it has chemicals". There is absolutely no way of getting through to these people. As the article says at the end "Misplaced faith has its costs." Should governments start branding the sale of such medicine illegal? Should medical schools start teaching how to interact with patients (if they don't already do so)?
 
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  • #2
I saw a commercial with Dr Oz, his show was about alternative medicine and it showed people banging on bowls and other nonsense that would do absolutely nothing to prevent or cure illness. (he promotes alternative medicine) And people believe this stuff. WHY?
 
  • #3
Evo said:
And people believe this stuff. WHY?

A lot of reasons, potentially.

The "clutching at straws" phenomenon. Wishful thinking, as in the case of people with terminal illnesses that (real) medicine cannot cure, they may be in denial, and cling on to a desperate hope.

Mistrust and skepticism of the medical and pharma industry. When scandals are publicised about doctors and "big" pharma, some members of the public adopt a blanket defensive cynicism.

Advertising, and lack of regulation with respect to it. The public is inundated with lots of info, both good and bad, about "alternative" treatments. As the lay public are not specialists and lack discernment, they cannot critically evaluate the claims made, and place the same degree of faith in them that they would in proper medical advice.

The Dunning-Kruger effect: exacerbating the problem above, it is often the case that the more incompetent someone is, the less able they are to recognise the magnitude of their own incompetence. So a patient may mistakenly think he knows better than a seasoned medical professional, because he overrates his own competence. This is compounded by the mistrust/skepticism I alluded to earlier.
 
  • #4
I'm dealing with this in my direct family. It is extremely frustrating and grieving to watch this person spend thousands of dollars on complete nonsense. No matter how much evidence I show them, they still believe this quackery.
 
  • #5
Curious3141 said:
The "clutching at straws" phenomenon...
Mistrust and skepticism of the medical and pharma industry...
Advertising, and lack of regulation with respect to it...
The Dunning-Kruger effect...
Two things to add to this:

Lack of understanding/communication; this is partly a failing of the education system and partly a failing of the scientific community to not play a bigger role in rectifying the problem (the Royal Society in the UK is starting to pay attention to the latter). People aren't taught what exactly science is, if I was in charge of education then all science classes would include a module on the scientific method every year so that everyone knows that it's a process and not a body of people with dogma. We've also got to remember that the public gets its information from media sources so from their perspective they've just got a bunch of people in white coats saying X and a bunch of other people in white coats saying Y.

Tradition/culture; in Asian communities alternative medicines are far more common and are intertwined with culture. This has a negative effect on that community as a whole and also has a wider effect as people look onto said culture and think "they all do it therefore there must be something behind it."
 
  • #6
According to the National Science Foundation 20% of Americans still believe the sun revolves around the Earth and 70% believe in psychic phenomena. In the wealthiest country in the world these kinds of percentages can't be dismissed as a lack of access to information or even innate stupidity. Believing the sun revolves around the Earth can't be dismissed as something promoted by religious institutions or whatever. Clearly these people are grasping at straws in a winner-takes-all society that encourages them to grasp at straws.

You can mock people for grasping at straws all you want, but in some cases it has proven its value. For example, children in poor neighborhoods who attend church services have higher grades. It has nothing to do with how religious their families might be and the effect doesn't occur in wealthier neighborhoods. Psychologists speculate it promotes what they call "resilience" or the ability to bounce back quickly from extreme stress and crisis. That such effects might also account for increased interest in alternative medicine goes without saying.

It's interesting that the OP mentions getting exercise and eating a healthy diet, but avoids the subject of mental health altogether. It is the classic dualistic mindset of western society. The AMA was confronted with this issue ten years ago when a British study showed that, all other factors being equal, job related stress determined how long people lived. Should the AMA now get involved in issues such as work place bullying? My own view is that until the overwhelming underlying dysfunctions in society that promote such behavior are addressed you might as well be spitting into the wind and attempting to deal with it in a purely intellectual manner is pointless.
 
  • #7
wuliheron said:
...

You can mock people for grasping at straws all you want, but in some cases it has proven its value. For example, children in poor neighborhoods who attend church services have higher grades. It has nothing to do with how religious their families might be and the effect doesn't occur in wealthier neighborhoods. Psychologists speculate it promotes what they call "resilience" or the ability to bounce back quickly from extreme stress and crisis. That such effects might also account for increased interest in alternative medicine goes without saying.

It's interesting that the OP mentions getting exercise and eating a healthy diet, but avoids the subject of mental health altogether. It is the classic dualistic mindset of western society. The AMA was confronted with this issue ten years ago when a British study showed that, all other factors being equal, job related stress determined how long people lived. Should the AMA now get involved in issues such as work place bullying? My own view is that until the overwhelming underlying dysfunctions in society that promote such behavior are addressed you might as well be spitting into the wind and attempting to deal with it in a purely intellectual manner is pointless.

While I can't dispute the claim that the "grasping at straws" method can help build "resilience," I do not believe that entertaining bogus ideas is the best way to to do so, nor do I believe it to be necessary, ever. Build "resilience" with methods that don't completely undermine the foundations of science.
 
  • #8
Dembadon said:
While I can't dispute the claim that the "grasping at straws" method can help build "resilience," I do not believe that entertaining bogus ideas is the best way to to do so, nor do I believe it to be necessary, ever. Build "resilience" with methods that don't completely undermine the foundations of science.

As I have already alluded to it is an economic and cultural issue rather then an intellectual one. The growing majority of the world's thriving democracies are all secular and even in the US religion has been on the decline for the last 40 years. As economies have thrived and entitlements grown people have evidently felt less of a need to grasp at straws in the first place and more of a desire to support scientific alternatives. You could argue that the scientific evidence supports using the carrot instead of the stick in such cases.
 
  • #9
The fact that it's called "alternative" medicine and not just "medicine" should be a red flag to these people.

I remember talking to a guy at work who bought that book "cures THEY don't want you to know about", or something like that.
He was telling me about it, and I felt bad for having to tell him he wasted his money, but I had to do it. I told him how the guy who wrote the book is a conman who writes fraudulent books for a living, preying on desperate and ignorant people.
 
  • #10
leroyjenkens said:
The fact that it's called "alternative" medicine and not just "medicine" should be a red flag to these people.

I remember talking to a guy at work who bought that book "cures THEY don't want you to know about", or something like that.
He was telling me about it, and I felt bad for having to tell him he wasted his money, but I had to do it. I told him how the guy who wrote the book is a conman who writes fraudulent books for a living, preying on desperate and ignorant people.

That's what we have been discussing. The simple fact is these people often don't trust the government or science and why should they? The government supports gross income inequality, perpetual war, and last year even seriously debated allowing the military to suspend habeas corpus altogether and round people up like cattle into camps. The single largest manufactured export in the US today is weapons and that's what a great deal of all that scientific research goes into. Trust and respect are things you have to earn and complaining about that simple fact of life does not earn trust and respect.
 
  • #11
wuliheron said:
That's what we have been discussing. The simple fact is these people often don't trust the government or science and why should they? The government supports gross income inequality, perpetual war, and last year even seriously debated allowing the military to suspend habeas corpus altogether and round people up like cattle into camps. The single largest manufactured export in the US today is weapons and that's what a great deal of all that scientific research goes into. Trust and respect are things you have to earn and complaining about that simple fact of life does not earn trust and respect.

Why does one not trust science just because one doesn't trust the government? I don't understand why science gets lumped into the government category.
 
  • #12
leroyjenkens said:
Why does one not trust science just because one doesn't trust the government? I don't understand why science gets lumped into the government category.

Probably because "everyone knows" that all scientific research is done at the behest of the government.
 
  • #13
leroyjenkens said:
Why does one not trust science just because one doesn't trust the government? I don't understand why science gets lumped into the government category.

Maybe both are part of "them" :rolleyes:.
 
  • #14
leroyjenkens said:
Why does one not trust science just because one doesn't trust the government? I don't understand why science gets lumped into the government category.

Some 80% of all research today is done by corporations, another 10% by governments, and only the remainder is done by universities and private institutions. The idea that science is some sort of abstract practice divorced from big business and governments, which in the US are very intimate bedfellows, is laughable.
 
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  • #15
I think the lure of alternative medicine is the same as the lure of the supernatural, and new age mysticism.

I'd feel safe betting that a high percentage of people that believe in alternative medicine also believe in the above.

Oprah Winfrey is greatly responsible for the popularity of it. She touts alternative medicine, spiritual healing, and a lot of other questionable beliefs.

In Oprah's world, vaccines don't prevent children from suffering, they cause autism. In Oprah's world, you can cure cancer with happy thoughts. In Oprah's world, Suzanne Somers and Jenny McCarthy are medical experts. In Oprah's world, Rhonda Byrne and Marianne Williamson are philosophers. In Oprah's world, injecting hormones will keep you forever young. In Oprah's world, the HPV vaccine kills people. In Oprah's world, cancer-causing sexually transmitted diseases can be prevented by eating healthy foods. In Oprah's world, thyroid dysfunction is an energy blockage caused by "a lifetime of 'swallowing' words one is aching to say." In Oprah's world, if you're hypothyroid you should take iodine supplements and drink soy milk. In Oprah's world, all you need for a quick face-lift without having to worry about side-effects is a needle and thread, or radio waves. In Oprah's world, psychics who claim to get messages from the dead are not exploiting grieving people, they are helping them through the grieving process. In Oprah's world, feelings always trump reason, intuition always trumps science, and hope always trumps fact. In Oprah's world, wishful thinking is considered science.

http://www.skepdic.com/skeptimedia/skeptimedia50.html

The Newsweek article.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2009/05/29/live-your-best-life-ever.html
 
  • #16
Some 80% of all research today is done by corporations, another 10% by governments, and only the remainder is done by universities and private institutions. The idea that science is some sort of abstract practice divorced from big business and governments, which in the US are very intimate bedfellows, is laughable.
That's no reason to abandon the scientific method and critical thinking. People don't trust the government or big corporations; that's fine. It's good that people are skeptical, but it seems like they're selectively skeptical. They don't trust the government, but they'll trust some nutcase who says they can lay on hands and cure what ails you.
Out of those two choices, the scientific research provides the most realistic option, while the alternative option is quicker and makes promises of grandeur that lure people in. It's not that people really don't trust the government and corporations so much that they refuse real scientific treatment, it's that the alternative medicine makes claims that can't be topped.
I think people know deep down that alternative medicine is most likely bunk, but they need to make excuses to help convince themselves that it works to make themselves feel better.
 
  • #17
I do not favor at all alternative medicines, but am an 'atheist' of conventional medicine too. I think that 80% of doctors thinking comes from an ideological and cultural background, not from a sound scientific reasoning. When I was young and decided to become vegetarian I could here lots of doctors telling me how dangerous it is, science shows that... Today a balanced vegetarian diet is accepted by almost every nutritionist. But now I'm vegan too, and again lots panic when I tell this. Despite the fact that there is today sufficient scientific evidence that shows how this is perfectly possible and reasonable, most physicians got stuck in their ideology and continue to repeat an old song. I don't believe in or practice any alternative medicine, if not a form of self-healing of my own, but I deeply mistrust the medical mind set based on fear and a superficial view of mind and body. Most of the things I got to hear from them turned out to be simply wrong, that had nothing to do with critical thinking but is based on a belief system which is the alter ego of that of alternative medicines. And friends of mine who are so worried about my health however are regularly ill for some reason or another and have to visit doctors one or more times a year. Me it is 25 years now that I don't step into a doctor's studio and am perfectly fine. I think it is quite natural that people become skeptical. It is perhaps not so much that alternative medicines are gaining ground, but the allopathic one is loosing it. And not without good reasons.
 
  • #18
Aidyan said:
I do not favor at all alternative medicines, but am an 'atheist' of conventional medicine too. I think that 80% of doctors thinking comes from an ideological and cultural background, not from a sound scientific reasoning. When I was young and decided to become vegetarian I could here lots of doctors telling me how dangerous it is, science shows that... Today a balanced vegetarian diet is accepted by almost every nutritionist. But now I'm vegan too, and again lots panic when I tell this. Despite the fact that there is today sufficient scientific evidence that shows how this is perfectly possible and reasonable, most physicians got stuck in their ideology and continue to repeat an old song. I don't believe in or practice any alternative medicine, if not a form of self-healing of my own, but I deeply mistrust the medical mind set based on fear and a superficial view of mind and body. Most of the things I got to hear from them turned out to be simply wrong, that had nothing to do with critical thinking but is based on a belief system which is the alter ego of that of alternative medicines. And friends of mine who are so worried about my health however are regularly ill for some reason or another and have to visit doctors one or more times a year. Me it is 25 years now that I don't step into a doctor's studio and am perfectly fine. I think it is quite natural that people become skeptical. It is perhaps not so much that alternative medicines are gaining ground, but the allopathic one is loosing it. And not without good reasons.
I'm sure that doctors vary from country to country. In the US, where I am, I would say doctors are more in line with current medical science.

You do know that a vegan diet is not healthy/sustainable without supplements, either separately, or pre-added to the food by the manufacturer. I prefer to get my nutrients naturally by eating a balanced, healthy diet.
 
  • #19
Evo said:
You do know that a vegan diet is not healthy/sustainable without supplements, either separately, or pre-added to the food by the manufacturer. I prefer to get my nutrients naturally by eating a balanced, healthy diet.

Every diet, if not balanced isn't healthy/sustainable. It is a general rule. And when it is, the only supplement a vegan should take care of is the B12 vitamin. Apart from that there is nothing that vegetables, legumes, cereals and fruits, can't supplement. And they do it even more 'naturally'.
 
  • #20
wuliheron said:
Some 80% of all research today is done by corporations, another 10% by governments, and only the remainder is done by universities and private institutions. The idea that science is some sort of abstract practice divorced from big business and governments, which in the US are very intimate bedfellows, is laughable.

Oh snap, nice retort.

I wonder if the research directives come from the marketing department for that 80%.
 
  • #21
Aidyan said:
And they do it even more 'naturally'.
Natural for a human? No.
 
  • #22
As a follow up to that article, the Economist hosted this poll where they asked the readers whether alternative medicine ought to be taught in schools. A disparagingly large number voted 'yes'. 46%! Count it! 46!

Now I don't understand why so many would have voted yes and am trying to rationalize. Maybe they want to teach them 'the other side' so that they know why it's wrong? Maybe to see if they can pick up on these other aspects such as inquiring about the patients' health so that they (the patients) are more relaxed in the doctor's office?
 
  • #23
WiFO215 said:
As a follow up to that article, the Economist hosted this poll where they asked the readers whether alternative medicine ought to be taught in schools. A disparagingly large number voted 'yes'. 46%! Count it! 46!

Now I don't understand why so many would have voted yes and am trying to rationalize. Maybe they want to teach them 'the other side' so that they know why it's wrong? Maybe to see if they can pick up on these other aspects such as inquiring about the patients' health so that they (the patients) are more relaxed in the doctor's office?
I honestly think the majority of people are just misinformed. There's nothing malicious about it, it's a failing of the education system and of market regulation. Think about it: big name pharmacies have aisles for alternative medicines, there are high street/mall "health" shops specialising them, TV adverts for them, celebraties endorsing them and precious few scientists and public officials working to counter the spread of pseudo-science. From a laymans point of view alternative medicines are medicines and though they may acknowledge there is some sort of difference between them and medicines that doctors perscribe they may not know what it is nor care.

To really combat the spread of alternative medicines there has to be an initiative at government level to increase education in both basic science (as in scientific method rather than the facts science has so far determined), increase education in identifying/analysing and debunking pseudo-science and cracking down on the sale of products with questionable claims. The latter is hard because whilst there is regulation there many products that get round it by never explicitly stating a false claim e.g. "Chemical X is necessary for producing thicker, healthier hair. Product Pro-X+ is rich in natural chemical X" This kind of thing is rife in advertising and leaves the viewer to infer that Product Pro-X+ produces thicker healthier hair because of chemical X even though the company has never stated that.
 
  • #24
Evo said:
Natural for a human? No.

An ideological statement without sound scientific arguments. And what means 'natural'? At any rate, modern meat based diet coming from large scale industrialized intensive livestock farmings hardly can be defined as 'natural'.
 
  • #25
Aidyan said:
An ideological statement without sound scientific arguments. And what means 'natural'? At any rate, modern meat based diet coming from large scale industrialized intensive livestock farmings hardly can be defined as 'natural'.

No such claim has been made. One does not have to purchase the meat of animals raised in feedlots. "Grass-fed" options are becoming increasingly available.
 
  • #26
This thread reminded me of a youtube series I found a couple years ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBZTeyfWvNo

These videos should be required material in high school. Watch the whole series; I was baffled at some of the responses to Mr. Dawkins's questions.

There is another video by James Randi (love this man) in which he points out the absurdity of homeopathic methods and reasoning. See below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWE1tH93G9U
 
  • #27
Dembadon said:
No such claim has been made. One does not have to purchase the meat of animals raised in feedlots. "Grass-fed" options are becoming increasingly available.

Grass-fed cattle farms make up no more than few per cent, and that will hardly change much, because cows without growth hormones grow too slowly and they need enormous amounts of grassland compared to factory farming. Most of the meat on the market must be "unnatural", because otherwise the system would collapse for simple financial and environmental reasons. The idea of the happy cow that will become healthy meat for everyone is only a romantic ideal that has no rational base in reality.
 
  • #28
there is no such thing as alternative medicine, because if there was reliable evidence of any "alternative" treatment's effectiveness it would be real medicine
 
  • #29
Aidyan said:
An ideological statement without sound scientific arguments. And what means 'natural'? At any rate, modern meat based diet coming from large scale industrialized intensive livestock farmings hardly can be defined as 'natural'.
If you were suggesting that a diet with no meat was more natural. Not for humans.

Meat-eating was essential for human evolution, says UC Berkeley anthropologist specializing in diet

It was this new meat diet, full of densely-packed nutrients, that provided the catalyst for human evolution, particularly the growth of the brain, said Katharine Milton, an authority on primate diet.

Without meat, said Milton, it's unlikely that proto humans could have secured enough energy and nutrition from the plants available in their African environment at that time to evolve into the active, sociable, intelligent creatures they became.
http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/99legacy/6-14-1999a.html

Aidyan said:
Every diet, if not balanced isn't healthy/sustainable. It is a general rule. And when it is, the only supplement a vegan should take care of is the B12 vitamin.
Vegan diets tend to be deficient in iron, B12, calcium, vitamin D, essential fatty acids, and essential amino acids. It’s possible to get these nutrients in a vegan diet if well planned and if supplements are used.

Aidyan said:
Apart from that there is nothing that vegetables, legumes, cereals and fruits, can't supplement. And they do it even more 'naturally'.

Anyway, this is off topic. Please return to discussing alternative medicine.
 
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  • #30
Evo said:
Anyway, this is off topic. Please return to discussing alternative medicine.
Suggestion: lead by example?

For the people in this thread discussing alternative medicine: you should be aware that the placebo effect can have a major effect on a person's well-being. Physicians should realize this and apply it in their clinic. Not to cure their patients with sugar pills, but to augment existing therapies. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21576150

Alternative medicine can exist besides the clinical medicine, but it should not replace it.
 

1. What is alternative medicine?

Alternative medicine refers to any medical treatment or practice that is not considered part of mainstream medicine. This can include practices such as herbal remedies, acupuncture, and energy healing.

2. Is alternative medicine effective?

The effectiveness of alternative medicine varies greatly and is highly debated. Some alternative treatments have been found to be helpful in certain cases, while others have not been scientifically proven to be effective. It is important to consult with a medical professional before trying any alternative treatment.

3. Are there any risks associated with alternative medicine?

Yes, there can be risks associated with alternative medicine. Since many alternative treatments have not been scientifically studied, their safety and potential side effects are often unknown. Additionally, some alternative treatments may interact with traditional medications and cause harm. It is important to thoroughly research any alternative treatment and consult with a medical professional before trying it.

4. Why do people turn to alternative medicine?

People may turn to alternative medicine for a variety of reasons, including a desire for a more natural approach to healing, dissatisfaction with traditional medicine, or a belief in the effectiveness of alternative treatments. Additionally, some people may turn to alternative medicine as a last resort when traditional treatments have failed.

5. What are the potential costs of using alternative medicine?

The costs of alternative medicine can vary greatly depending on the specific treatment and provider. Some alternative treatments may not be covered by insurance, leading to out-of-pocket expenses. Additionally, if alternative treatments are used instead of traditional medicine, there may be a delay in receiving proper medical care, which can have serious consequences. Furthermore, there is the potential for financial loss if the alternative treatment is not effective and traditional medicine must be sought out afterwards.

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