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What generate the Gravity force from mass?

by oem7110
Tags: force, generate, gravity, mass
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oem7110
#1
May5-12, 06:56 AM
P: 151
When we look into the molecules, there are proton neutron and electrons, as we know there is an attracted force between positive and negative charges.
Does anyone have any suggestions on what generate the Gravity force from mass?
Thanks in advance of any suggestions
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mfb
#2
May5-12, 04:15 PM
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as we know there is an attracted force between positive and negative charges.
And there is an attracting force between masses and masses. Masses are the gravitational charge.

Where is the difference?
Note that this both descriptions are not explanations why these forces (and the corresponding charges) exist.
oem7110
#3
May5-12, 05:04 PM
P: 151
Quote Quote by mfb View Post
And there is an attracting force between masses and masses. Masses are the gravitational charge.

Where is the difference?
Note that this both descriptions are not explanations why these forces (and the corresponding charges) exist.
When we look at the mass deep inside, there are molecules charges containing proton neutron and electrons, and charges generate a force attracting each other between positive and negative, and repelling each other between same charges, but gravity force always attract each other, and never repel each other, so what kind of force attracting between masses in term of physic? and can masses still be the gravitational charge?
Thanks you very much for any suggestions

Kabbotta
#4
May5-12, 05:33 PM
P: 45
What generate the Gravity force from mass?

Continuing what mfb already correctly pointed out....

Mass IS the gravitational charge you are looking for. Part of the problem seems to be that you portray mass to somehow be a larger effect than electromagnetic charge. When you drill into the atom past the protons and electrons that carry that charge you find quarks each which have mass and those masses add together to form the mass you drilled down into to find the charges. In that sense mass is more fundamental than you are giving it credit for.

If you want to know where the "mass particle" is then look into something like the search for the Higgs Boson. The little secret here is that we don't know what actually generates the gravitational force anymore than we know "why" a positive charge attracts a negative charge like mfb said. We've just seen that they do and wrote down the rules they appear to follow.

By the way, congrats on asking the truly deep questions and not being satisfied with the answers you get. That's where progress comes from ; )
Drakkith
#5
May5-12, 08:46 PM
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The basic idea is that gravity IS a charge and it only has 1 possible charge. This is different from the electromagnetic force which has 2 possible charges. In gravity's case these "charges" only attract.

HOWEVER, I feel I have to point out that our main theory concerning gravity is General Relativity, which portrays gravity as a warping or curving of spacetime, not as an actual force like the EM force is. As such, there are no charges. Mass causes a curving of spacetime and the result is felt like a force and is known as gravitation.
oem7110
#6
May5-12, 09:48 PM
P: 151
Quote Quote by mfb View Post
Masses are the gravitational charge.
Does anyone have any suggestions on the relationship between Masses and gravitational force? so I can determine the determine the force based on mass in formula?
Thanks everyone very much for any suggestions
TurtleMeister
#7
May5-12, 09:49 PM
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P: 757
Quote Quote by oem7110 View Post
When we look into the molecules, there are proton neutron and electrons, as we know there is an attracted force between positive and negative charges.
Does anyone have any suggestions on what generate the Gravity force from mass?
Thanks in advance of any suggestions
I don't think anyone has an answer to that question (yet). How gravitational charge is generated is much less understood than how electrical charge is generated. Gravity is such a weak force that laboratory experiments are very difficult to carry out.
Quote Quote by mfb View Post
And there is an attracting force between masses and masses. Masses are the gravitational charge.

Where is the difference?
Note that this both descriptions are not explanations why these forces (and the corresponding charges) exist.
The difference lies in the fact that electrical charges are associated with the electron and the proton, but the gravitational charge is associated with all forms of mass. There is a lot of direct evidence to support the former, but very little direct evidence to support the latter.

For example, there is no direct evidence to support the idea that the electron produces a gravitational charge, or that it's active gravitational mass is equal to it's inertial mass. Their equality is only an assumption based on the equivalence principle. Here is a paper that talks about the experimental evidence (or lack of evidence) to support the equivalence of active gravitational mass.
http://www.gravityresearchfoundation...an_gillies.pdf
oem7110
#8
May6-12, 09:43 AM
P: 151
Quote Quote by TurtleMeister View Post
For example, there is no direct evidence to support the idea that the electron produces a gravitational charge, or that it's active gravitational mass is equal to it's inertial mass. Their equality is only an assumption based on the equivalence principle. Here is a paper that talks about the experimental evidence (or lack of evidence) to support the equivalence of active gravitational mass.
http://www.gravityresearchfoundation...an_gillies.pdf
Thank you very much for your articles

Let look at H2O, some energy is holding the molecules patterns of H2O together, if not, it could be easily broken and form something else, but the amount of water is stable on earth for a long period of time. Does anyone have any suggestions on this observation?
Thanks everyone very much for any suggestions
mfb
#9
May6-12, 11:18 AM
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Suggestions for what? Electromagnetic interaction holds H2O together. Some molecules get broken up all the time (in pure water, there is on average on H3O and one OH per 10 million molecules), but most of them recombine to H2O later (usually not with the same atoms). Water is very low-energetic way to have hydrogen bonds, therefore this is the usual way to find hydrogen on earth - unless some process binds it in other molecules. Life does that frequently, but the total biomass is small compared to the total amount of water on earth.
Drakkith
#10
May6-12, 12:29 PM
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I'd look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitation


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