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Why do liberals support immigration so much?

by Tosh5457
Tags: immigration, liberals, support
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Jasongreat
#19
May18-12, 08:56 PM
P: 75
To pythagorean, your quote is talking about immigrants, no one I know is anti-immigrant! But, immigrants who come here illegally have all broken the law, that is 100% if my math is right?
Jack21222
#20
May18-12, 09:33 PM
P: 772
Quote Quote by Jasongreat View Post
To pythagorean, your quote is talking about immigrants, no one I know is anti-immigrant! But, immigrants who come here illegally have all broken the law, that is 100% if my math is right?
Everybody has broken the law. I drive in excess of the posted speed limit every day of my life. I have listened to illegally downloaded songs. I jaywalk. I've trespassed in taking a shortcut. I've probably cursed too loud in public, which could be construed as disorderly conduct.

So, I don't quite understand the point you're trying to make.
Pythagorean
#21
May19-12, 12:06 AM
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Quote Quote by Jasongreat View Post
To pythagorean, your quote is talking about immigrants, no one I know is anti-immigrant! But, immigrants who come here illegally have all broken the law, that is 100% if my math is right?
You are answering a different question though. The quote made a statement about crime rates. Rate is a continuous number that can hold many values and changes with time. Instead, you framed the question binary "have they broken a law or not".
nitsuj
#22
May19-12, 09:33 AM
P: 1,097
Quote Quote by Locrian View Post
I understand there’s value in treating our elderly population with some care, but children are the future of the country. . . and will be the ones paying those taxes pretty soon.


In any case, that would be a 25 year solution to a 5 year problem. . .
That first comment I think touches on a crucial point. Poetically, it is a clash between our empathy & selfishness.

Even from the tender age of 32, to me it's clear "care" for elders is NOT top quality healthcare with 24/7 nursing support and a 24/7 on call doctor, subsidized at a minimum of 50% by the government.

That's the "scene" in Canada. Yes it does provide a fantastic amount of "service" labour at "living wage" pay grades. A form of equity balancing, a remarkable percentage of professional nursing staff are "new" Canadians, but in a addition the education required is an attractive balance with the near guaranteed job & ever increasing wages (all nurses are unionized, well pretty much). In other words it is easy entry into the field, not rags to riches, but min.40k annual ain't to shabby, excluding fringe benefits such as "employer funded" pension.

btw I'd peg the cost per "resident" in an LTC facility at about 4k a month total, say about 14million capital for 125 residents.

The average age of an LTC facility resident in Ontario is 81. Life expectancy in Canada is 80.7. Consider that this is a LONG term care facility, right; I suppose long is a relative term in this context.

The logic is funny from this perspective, and clearly this isn't "caring" for elders so much as "caring" for something else.


Whats the education scene from this perspective? Wish I knew, but would guess it's pretty close. Excluding the "backwards" logic of 81yr olds in a Long Term care Facility in a country where life expectancy is 80.7. Neat food for thought in the context of "Selfish Gene" concepts.

I like they wording of your last comment!
OmCheeto
#23
May19-12, 12:19 PM
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We only support immigrants that support our values*.

The rest can go home.

Quote Quote by Tom McCall
Come visit us again and again. This is a state of excitement. But for heaven's sake, don't come here to live.
Tom McCall was an immigrant from Massachusetts, and our governor when I was a young lad.

*ps. Our values here are pretty simple: Don't litter**.
pps. OMG! I just read that one of our recent mayors is a German born Rooski. And I always wondered why she had a Brooklyn accent.
**ppps. Now we'll have to start an 86 page long thread on what 'litter' means to Om, as compared to the rest of humanity.
ThomasT
#24
May19-12, 11:55 PM
P: 1,414
Quote Quote by Tosh5457 View Post
I agree with most liberal ideas, because they're usually rational, but the one thing I don't think is rational are their ideas about immigration and affirmative action. Why do they support the continuation of legal immigration as it is, and why do they support giving amnesty to illegal immigrants?

[ ...]

Just to be clear, I'm not against immigration - I'm in favor of smart immigration laws, not the laws there are today in most european countries and USA. As for amnesty, it's supposed to be an exception, not a rule. For example, if some refugees went to an European country illegally I think they should get amnesty while their country doesn't have conditions to receive them. But amnesty to immigrants who just run through the borders doesn't make any sense. And I'm completely against affirmative action.
I basically agree with this.
Locrian
#25
May21-12, 09:02 AM
P: 1,737
Quote Quote by nitsuj View Post
Excluding the "backwards" logic of 81yr olds in a Long Term care Facility in a country where life expectancy is 80.7.
What's backwards about it? The life expectancy of an 80 or 81 year old is not 80.7. The life expectancy of an 80 year old is a bit over 9 years here in the US, though it will vary by sex, region, ethnicity and marital status (among others). It probably isn't that different in Canada.

I have to remind my dad about this all the time, when he talks about his future and mentions a life expectancy of 75 years. The life expectancy for a newborn might be 75 (though I think it's higher), but you're not a newborn and you better be ready to finance a number of years after that, bud. . . get thee to a financial advisor. . .
nitsuj
#26
May21-12, 11:57 AM
P: 1,097
?? It's long term care, That is not old age. One who requires long term care, is in dire straights before going to the facility. A statistic showing the Average age of a resident is equal to the life expectancy in the country for me says the residents are not in need of long term care, the is very little "long" left.

Why isn't the average age of a LTC resident not less than the life expectancy>? That would make sense.

Funding long term care for someone who is already past the normal life expectancy is a waste of public resources.

(and taking it too far) If someone wants to pay 4k a month to extend a loved ones life beyond the average life expectancy via 24/7 nursing and a buffet of pharmaceuticals then go for it.

But don't have it publicly funded and slap a Long Term Care label on the expense.

At a facility I worked at there was a gentleman who was my age, 30ish, a very rare sight. But imo is a perfect example of what long term care is.

Someone being admitted in their 70's so their life expectancy can be stretched out to the norm? I don't agree with that, there are far more younger candidates that could use the funds to improve their life, and that should be the intent of long term care.


Oh your 80 year old life expectancy of +9 years would be for an individual NOT requiring 24/7 healthcare right? Yea, it'd vary allot if that is taken into consideration. Which is my point.

To round off these stats, I would need to know the average length of stay for an LTC resident. (I do know there would be a fairly large variance here, from 10yrs to a few months.)
Oltz
#27
May21-12, 02:30 PM
P: 12
nitsuj

I think the point he was trying to make is life expectancy is for people born today not people who are already that age remember to get an average of 80 50 people need to live to 81 for every person who died at 30 or think about teenagers in car accidents...hence the ones that have made it to that age statistically are actually expected to make it to something higher to actually achieve the expected average.

So you can not say well teh life expectancy in our country is 80.7 we anyone over 79.5 doesnt need any healthcare. If they all died at 80.7 your "expectancy" would continue to drop every year for each person who dies "early" eventually you would have no healthcare over 40...

I am not sure any of that made sense back to work.
nitsuj
#28
May21-12, 02:53 PM
P: 1,097
Ah I see, I was comparing apples to oranges there, but I still miss the point.
Ryan_m_b
#29
May21-12, 03:06 PM
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Considering this thread started on a false premise and the OP has nothing to back up his statements there is no point keeping it open.


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