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Dreams of the future

by chhitiz
Tags: dreams, future
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Vladimirr
#37
Mar28-12, 09:38 AM
P: 13
Warning: Anecdotes follow

(This is my first post here, been lurking for a while. I will try to keep this objective and analytical while still relaying my personal experiences and conclusions.)

I get deja vu often, usually it's clustered around periods of stress. When I have the deja vu, I "remember" a very specific event, and I experience that event very clearly. After it ends, I get very confused, nauseous, have a severe headache, and feel extremely hot. After the episode, I have very little memory of the event that I was "remembering".

I can try to "stay in" the deja-vu longer, and write down things as I'm experiencing them, but so far nothing's made much sense, and the longer I stay in, the worse I feel afterwards. At this point, I try to get out of the deja-vu as soon as I can so that I'm not knocked out of commission for the rest of the day.

My neurologist says it's likely tied to some other existing neurological issues that I have. The human brain is a very complicated device and can even fool itself about what it thinks it's experiencing from each of its inputs. Obviously not everyone who gets deja vu has a strong negative physiological response afterwards, but it does show that such a thing can be caused by a neurological event of some kind. Occam's razor would seem to apply here.

I can see how people in times past would associate experiences like this with "visions", special powers, or spiritual encounters; it's similar to people with Multiple Sclerosis losing and regaining their sight or ability to walk due to the natural progression/remission of the disease. ( http://www.mult-sclerosis.org/whatisms.html )( http://www.netplaces.com/multiple-sc.../remission.htm )

I found this thread online where other people describe their experiences. Thankfully, it's mostly devoid of paranormal or supernatural discussion. I don't endorse these forums, and I disagree with some of the analyses, but you can glean information from the personal experiences of others; I see they are very similar to what I'm trying to explain. ( http://forums.bettermedicine.com/sho...-and-confusion )
JaredJames
#38
Mar28-12, 01:03 PM
P: 3,387
Can't say I'm convinced. I think the simple fact that it isn't possible to see the future does it for me.
Mentallic
#39
Mar28-12, 08:48 PM
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P: 3,531
Neither.

I feel like it's similar to how my aunty thinks the "universe" speaks to her. She told me one time that she woke up to find three birds on her porch. Two of them were facing one way and the other was facing the opposite way. A few months later, her sister turned her back on their parents.
Unsurprisingly, my aunty felt like that the birds were representing this event, even though statistically speaking (ignoring bird behaviours) with 3 birds, there is a 3/4 chance that 1 will be facing the opposite direction.

Also, she feels nauseous when the full moon is out because it obviously affects people and animals physically since it's capable of affecting the tides
SHISHKABOB
#40
Mar28-12, 09:57 PM
P: 614
I hate deja vu. I don't get it too often, but every time it happens it makes me feel like a crazy person. I sit there and go "oh, I recognize this, now this is gonna happen, and now that, and then that, and now I won't know what's gonna happen"

whenever it happens I KNOW that I had had a dream about that situation. One time it was simply being in the car while going past a green hill with some guy with a funny Indian accent talking about selling used cars. Then there was a time where I was wrestling with my dad and he had me upside down and there was the TV right in front of me and it was static. There are many times this happens to me. I'm honestly not sure if I actually had the dreams where these things happen, or if it's simply chance that I had a dream that so closely resembled reality.

In my instances of deja vu I feel as though it's just chance. I dream fairly often and most of the time my dreams vary quite a bit throughout them. Ranging from very realistic events to utterly insane things. Therefore I feel as though it's very likely that I will end up dreaming about a situation that could possibly happen. And then there is the fact that I could be dreaming... but end up not remembering it.

Anyways, deja vu makes me uncomfortable, but I highly doubt that mine have anything out of the ordinary.
zoobyshoe
#41
Mar29-12, 11:51 AM
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Quote Quote by Vladimirr View Post
My neurologist says it's likely tied to some other existing neurological issues that I have. The human brain is a very complicated device and can even fool itself about what it thinks it's experiencing from each of its inputs. Obviously not everyone who gets deja vu has a strong negative physiological response afterwards, but it does show that such a thing can be caused by a neurological event of some kind. Occam's razor would seem to apply here.
It's well documented that such a thing can have a neurological cause. Someone pointed this out at the forum you linked to, but it bears reiteration: Deja Vu is a common manifestation of a simple partial seizure, which is any seizure activity limited to a small area of one hemisphere. In the case of Deja Vu it is limited to the area around the hippocampus, which is a part of the brain essential to forming memories.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8149215

Simple partial seizures can occur just about anywhere in the brain, though, and the variety of physical, emotional, and sensory symptoms is very wide:

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1184384-clinical

Simple partial seizures may or may not precede more serious seizures. When they do they are informally called the "aura" of the more serious seizure.

Deja Vu is sometimes experienced as a Migraine aura as well, but this is probably due to the high co-morbidity of Migraine and Epilepsy, e.g.:

http://www.neurology.org/content/44/11/2105

In other words, someone with a primary diagnosis of Migraine might also be prone to simple partial seizures even though they haven't been diagnosed with epilepsy.

In any event, I personally think the Deja Vu plus the feeling one has dreamt the situation before, is pure neurological illusion. The Deja Vu creates the false memory of a dream that never actually occurred in the past.
Gabe21
#42
Mar29-12, 12:50 PM
P: 52
Saying you drempt about a public figure dying(especially one you follow) is statistically normal. for instance if i had a dream that charlie sheen died of and overdose it doesnt mean i predicted the event, it just means out of the millions of people that know of him its very possible that someone dreamed he died. it doesnt make me a future teller of any sort.
Deja vu may also have something to do with the fact that your subconsience recieves sensory information before you are aware of it. So if your brain is laging from stress or any other factor then it could just be a redundancy of information.(experiencing it twice)
Dreams are an extension of the subconsience, so it makes sence that if you are thinking about a particular topic for an extended period of time(days or weeks) then your dreams are gonna recreate the extreams and inbetweens of that topic.(one of which could be likley to happen)
Deja vu is just the subconsience playing tricks on the consience, not literally but indirectly. i have deja vu all the time and i have still never gotten use to it.
chhitiz
#43
May23-12, 04:42 PM
P: 221
wow, so many people confessing to having dreams of the future and deja vus. i have a few questions to all of 'em. doesn't really mean anything, just trying to see what's common-
have you taken a proper IQ test, if so what was your score?
have you been diagnosed with an autism spectrum disorder by a proper psychiatrist?
have you self diagnosed the above but no had professional diagnosis till now, or been denied the possibility by a professional?
have you improper social skills?
are you creative?
would you call yourself an out of box thinker?
r you cold and impersonal or warm an friendly?
do you have migraines?
or what they call as ice-pick headaches?
do you regularly have seizures?
the answers would b highly subjective. and i know this isn't a 'real' real science experiment, but if your answering please be as honest as you can.
Mentallic
#44
May23-12, 11:10 PM
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Quote Quote by chhitiz View Post
have you taken a proper IQ test, if so what was your score?
No, I haven't. Probably higher than average.

Quote Quote by chhitiz View Post
have you been diagnosed with an autism spectrum disorder by a proper psychiatrist?
No, I haven't been diagnosed, have never had any reason to get a diagnosis.

Quote Quote by chhitiz View Post
have you self diagnosed the above but no had professional diagnosis till now, or been denied the possibility by a professional?
No, have no self-diagnosed myself to having any kind of autism.

Quote Quote by chhitiz View Post
have you improper social skills?
No, I'm quite social.

Quote Quote by chhitiz View Post
are you creative?
Not really. Unless having a keen understanding of maths is considered creative.

Quote Quote by chhitiz View Post
would you call yourself an out of box thinker?
No.

Quote Quote by chhitiz View Post
r you cold and impersonal or warm an friendly?
Unless the person is a jerk or pushes my wrong buttons I'll be warm and friendly. I meet people with a positive attitude.

Quote Quote by chhitiz View Post
do you have migraines? or what they call as ice-pick headaches? do you regularly have seizures?
No.

You have to understand that while I felt like I had a deja vu one time, my Aunty has dreams that she feels tell her things about the future, and I find that to be really nutty.
mnb96
#45
May24-12, 02:57 AM
P: 625
Quote Quote by Evo View Post
Anecdotes are ok as long as you do not propose what they could be. Personal theories are not allowed.
What was that? A form of censorship in a thread on dreams and deja-vus? Are we serious?
Just kidding. I think the user's intent was simply to describe both his/her own experience, and how he/she perceived it.

In fact, I could add that I experience the same sort of thing that spicypisces described, and quite regularly. That is, I have some dream during the night, and when I wake up in the morning and try to remember what I have dreamt about, I am often totally unable to remember anything, no matter how hard I try. Later on, during the day, I occasionally happen to do some action, or I simply experience some emotion that was very similar to the one I saw/experienced in the dream. Whenever this happens, I first have a strange blurry feeling, as if my brain tried to ring some "warning bell", and then almost instantly I am able to recall the whole dream I had, and I realize that what I am doing/experiencing in the real life situation, is the same (or similar) thing as I experienced in the dream.

For example not so long ago, I simply happened to dream about a person, and in the dream I was feeling good emotions towards this person (..and no! it was not a wet dream if you are thinking in that direction...). I totally forgot the dream, but during the next day I happened to meet that person for real, and for some "weird reason" I started to feel good emotions. I had already learnt that when this sort of things happen, it's probably because of a dream I had, and in fact, suddenly I started to remember the whole dream I had. It was a dream that I had previously completely forgotten. Without that event triggering the emotion, I would have been unable to recall the dream. Whether you like it or not, that's how it was, and that's how I felt, and get along with it, Evo

Another more extreme example, was when I was with some friends on a Sunday trip visiting a small town. It started to rain very hard, and we decided to stop in a parking lot, waiting inside the car for that storm to pass. When I was looking at the parking lot and its surroundings, I had one of those strange feelings I described, and I quickly recalled that I saw a very similar parking lot in a dream. I remembered the whole dream, and I also remembered that I had that dream something like two years before! I myself was so surprised of this coincidence that I had to tell my friends I was having an "unusual deja-vu" :)
zoobyshoe
#46
May24-12, 04:27 PM
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Quote Quote by mnb96 View Post
I had to tell my friends I was having an "unusual deja-vu" :)
What you describe isn't a deja vu, though. You are describing how real life events somehow manage to trigger the memory of a dream you'd forgotten. It also wasn't a "prophetic" dream. You'd merely dreamt of a "similar" parking lot. Your chances of encountering a parking lot are so high it's not surprising you'd end up being reminded later if you had a dream about one.
mnb96
#47
May24-12, 04:46 PM
P: 625
@zoobyshoe:

I cite from Wikipedia:

"...Déjà vu (French pronunciation: [deʒa vy], literally "already seen") is the feeling of certainty that one has already witnessed or experienced a current situation, even though the exact circumstances of the prior encounter are unclear and were perhaps imagined..."

This perfectly suits the personal experiences/feelings I have reported.

I am no expert in this field, but as far as I understood the concept of Déja vu does not involve any "prophetic" aspect, as you claim. Are you sure you are not confusing Deja vu with premonition?

About my dream of the parking lot, I agree with you when you say that "the chances of encountering a parking lot are so high it's not surprising you'd end up being reminded later if you had a dream about one". In fact, I used carefully my words and I talked about simple "coincidence". What I found surprising was mainly the fact that I was suddenly able to recall for the first time a dream that I had two years before and that I had never been able to recall previously.
zoobyshoe
#48
May24-12, 05:32 PM
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Quote Quote by mnb96 View Post
@zoobyshoe:

I cite from Wikipedia:

"...Déjà vu (French pronunciation: [deʒa vy], literally "already seen") is the feeling of certainty that one has already witnessed or experienced a current situation, even though the exact circumstances of the prior encounter are unclear and were perhaps imagined..."

This perfectly suits the personal experiences/feelings I have reported.
No, you didn't have the feeling of certainty of having lived through it before, you recalled that you'd dreamt something similar the night before.

I am no expert in this field, but as far as I understood the concept of Déja vu does not involve any "prophetic" aspect, as you claim. Are you sure you are not confusing Deja vu with premonition?
I am not confusing deja vu with premonition. The link is made in the OP with the suggestion that deja vu is caused by a prophetic dream: you dream of the future, then it comes true, hence, a weird feeling of familiarity. Anecdotes to the effect, "I dreamt something, then it came true" would fit this theme. Your anecdote doesn't really tie in.

About my dream of the parking lot, I agree with you when you say that "the chances of encountering a parking lot are so high it's not surprising you'd end up being reminded later if you had a dream about one". In fact, I used carefully my words and I talked about simple "coincidence". What I found surprising was mainly the fact that I was suddenly able to recall for the first time a dream that I had two years before and that I had never been able to recall previously.
It's interesting, yes. I'm concerned about the term "deja vu" getting conflated with similar sounding things that aren't actually deja vu's.

A deja vu is a powerful, mysterious experience in which everything about your present situation seems weirdly familiar when you know it can't possibly be familiar. Try as you might, you can't account for why it seems so intensely familiar. Each minute detail of the situation is familiar, as if your life was a recording and you'd been pushed back in time slightly to relive a moment in every detail as you progressed forward again. I've had thousands of these.

Then there's the experience of having something trigger the memory of an actual dream you had. You run into a person, then suddenly remember you dreamt about them the night before. I've had this and am pretty sure everyone has. You feel very surprised that you've forgotten the dream in the meantime, particularly if it was a powerful dream.

Then there's a third experience which starts as a deja vu: your whole present situation seems uncannily familiar, as if you must have lived through this exact moment before, but, instead of not being able to account for it, you have the strong feeling you had a prophetic dream in which you saw this future moment before it happened. Now that it has come to pass, you suddenly recall the dream in which you 'lived through it before'. That has only happened to me twice.

The first and the last are different than seeing a parking lot and remembering the fact you had two previous dreams in which a parking lot figured prominently. It's an interesting experience, but it's not a deja vu. You had the second experience: something triggered the memory of a dream you'd forgotten.

A deja vu is never a true memory: it's a neurological illusion. You can't remember the present. Remembering a dream you had is a true memory: you actually had the dream at some point in the past.
mnb96
#49
May24-12, 06:11 PM
P: 625
Quote Quote by zoobyshoe View Post
A deja vu is never a true memory: it's a neurological illusion. You can't remember the present. Remembering a dream you had is a true memory: you actually had the dream at some point in the past.
This sentence was particularly helpful. And apparently these concepts are more subtle than what a casual reader like me is usually led to think.

So, basically what you are trying to say (please, correct me if I am wrong) is that an essential ingredient for one experience to be regarded as a deja-vu is the strong feeling of having experienced the same thing in the past, combined with the impossibility to recollect the actual memory of it (if such memory exists at all). Did I get it right?

I am still a bit puzzled at why you insist that my experience (although admittedly not very interesting) does not fit the definition of deja-vu. You claim that my experiences are not deja-vus because I "didn't have the feeling of certainty of having lived through it before". I actually I did have that feeling, but that feeling usually lasted at most minutes, until I realized that it was due to a dream I had previously.

I cite again from Wikipedia:

Déjà vu [...] is the feeling of certainty that one has already witnessed [...] a current situation, even though the exact circumstances of the prior encounter [...] were perhaps imagined... The "previous" experience is most frequently attributed to a dream [...]

All the component I underlined are present in my experiences, and the fact of being derived from dreams simply enforces the resemblance with the definition above.
Are you perhaps simply trying to say that once you become fully aware that this feeling of "already-seen" is due to a dream, then it ceases to be a deja-vu?
zoobyshoe
#50
May24-12, 06:53 PM
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Quote Quote by mnb96 View Post
This sentence was particularly helpful. And apparently these concepts are more subtle than what a casual reader like me is usually led to think.

So, basically what you are trying to say (please, correct me if I am wrong) is that an essential ingredient for one experience to be regarded as a deja-vu is the strong feeling of having experienced the same thing in the past, combined with the impossibility to recollect the actual memory of it (if such memory exists at all). Did I get it right?
It's paradoxical and calls attention to itself for being paradoxical: the present has the feeling of being from the past, but you can't link the scene to anything but itself. You are aware the present is reminding you of the present! I used to think of them as "Phantom Memories of the Present". The best "test" of a deja vu is: if the explanation that you have been shoved slightly back in time to relive a moment exactly, is the one that seems to make the most sense. You are always struck by the knowledge it's paradoxical: you can't have experienced the present before, but it seems so powerfully familiar, more familiar, in fact, than authentically familiar situations ever seem.

I am still a bit puzzled at why you insist that my experience (although admittedly not very interesting) does not fit the definition of deja-vu. You claim that my experiences are not deja-vus because I "didn't have the feeling of certainty of having lived through it before". I actually I did have that feeling, but that feeling usually lasted at most minutes, until I realized that it was due to a dream I had previously.

I cite again from Wikipedia:

Déjà vu [...] is the feeling of certainty that one has already witnessed [...] a current situation, even though the exact circumstances of the prior encounter [...] were perhaps imagined... The "previous" experience is most frequently attributed to a dream [...]
You didn't report any " certainty of having lived through it before" when you told the story, though.

I am primarily concerned people don't confuse the terms. Some people confuse "deja vu" with "flashback", for example, which is a completely different phenomenon, though it might sound superficially similar. A flashback has a vivid visual component: the person sees a scene from their past recreated, more or less vividly, right in front of their eyes. It seems perfectly OK to them to call this a "deja vu" because it means "already seen". But that's incorrect. By which I mean, neurologists have sorted out which term they're going to use for which experience, and I think any academically minded person should follow suit.


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