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Questions about properties of wave-functions

 
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Jun27-12, 05:13 PM   #18
 

Questions about properties of wave-functions


Quote by mr. vodka View Post
The pilot-wave interpretation can also explain/deduce it. I would presume there are other (nonlinear) interpretations which can also do that.
The introduction of particles that are piloted by the field is a nonlinearity of the theory. The fields stay linear, but the properties of the particles are not subject to superposition. So it's the lack of a linear structure in the point particle representation that breaks the linearity of the theory.

As for other interpretations that are able to actually derive the Born rule, I'd be interested in hearing which you have in mind. The only derivations I know of are in the context of MWI (with artificial assumptions that are practically equivalent to stating the Born rule directly) or Zurek's envariance, which I consider circular.
Jun27-12, 05:13 PM   #19
 
Quote by HallsofIvy View Post
I think you meant 10^{-10} - 10^{-15} sec. What you wrote would run to several million years.

yes sir, i forgot the minus symboll.
thanks.
Jun28-12, 05:49 PM   #20
 
Quote by Jazzdude View Post
That's interesting. I haven't looked into nonlinearities due to non commutative geometry very deeply, but my impression was that there is no complete theory that would predict collapse including the Born rule. I could very well be wrong. Do you have an literature pointers?



I'm quite certain that some kind of nonlinearity is needed to fully explain the observation of single unique measurement outcomes and as a consequence the Born statistic. The question is where such a nonlinearity might come from. As you said, something that doesn't have to be artificially added but is inherent to the theory is surely preferable.

But what if this nonlinearity is already present in the linear structure of quantum theory as we know it? If we eradicate the measurement postulate, the nonlinearity seems to arise as a subjective artifact of trying to reconstruct the state of the universe by interacting with it.

I know this sounds quite unlikely, but please check http://arxiv.org/abs/1205.0293 for the exact argument and a thorough discussion. The paper derives the measurement postulate including the Born rule and makes predictions for observable effects. I'd be happy to have someone to discuss it with.

well, related arguments.

Schroedinger equation from an exact uncertainty principle
J. Phys. A 35 (2002) 3289
http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0102069

Exact uncertainty approach in quantum mechanics and quantum gravity
Gen. Relativ. Gravit. 37 (2005) 1505
http://arxiv.org/pdf/gr-qc/0408098v1.pdf

and
http://arxiv.org/pdf/gr-qc/0610142v2.pdf
Jun30-12, 06:11 PM   #21
 
unifying quantum and thermodinamics

Nonlinear extensions of Schrödinger-von Neumann quantum dynamics: a list of conditions for compatibility with thermodynamics.
http://arxiv.org/pdf/quant-ph/0402180v1.pdf


Nonlinear Quantum Evolution Equations to Model Irreversible Adiabatic Relaxation with Maximal Entropy Production and Other Nonunitary Processes.
http://arxiv.org/pdf/0907.1977v1.pdf



....In contrast with the epistemic framework, where the linearity of the dynamical law is a requirement, the assumed ontic status of the density operator emancipates its dynamical law from the restrictive requirement of linearity....
Jul3-12, 07:04 AM   #22
 
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San K is still wrestling with these concepts if recent threads are anything to go by...
1. Are wave-functions real? i.e. do they exist in reality?
Depends what you mean by real - it is useful to think of them as mathematical tools for helping make predictions.
if they can modify/change the behavior/path of a photon then something real must exist, that is taking into account/calculating both/all the slits/paths.
They cannot do this. You do not get a photon interacting with a wavefunction - the photon and wavefunction are different descriptions of the same thing.[also see answer to #4]
2. Are wave-functions ("travelling") instantaneous?
Some wave functions describe travelling waves, so they can be thought of as travelling. This basically means that the time evolution of a wave-function means that the peaks and troughs are in different places at different times.
3. Are wave-functions the same concept/thing that are used in Quantum Entanglement as well?
Wavefunctions can be used to describe quantum entanglement.
4. Do wave-functions have energy?
No. This question was revisited in your recent thread here.
5. Is the collapse of the wave-function instantaneous?
The "collapse" is part of a description known as the Copenhagen Interpretation. It is not considered "instant" and there is some debate about how seriously to consider it.
a collapse happens when we try to detect the photon. at that point the photon is now "entangled" with the detector (?)
No - entanglement is a different process. A photon is usually detected by electromagnetism - it gets destroyed, and it's energy absorbed by an electron, which gets ejected. (There are other methods - but this gives you the idea: detection is not some magical effect of now you see it now you don't... it is a physical process.)
6. Are wave-functions (existing) within space-time?
There are wavefunctions which can be represented in terms of space-time...
7. When a photon is travelling from the sun towards the earth, is there a wave-function existing at all times between the photon and its final destination? and does that final destination keep changing to the first object of opaque obstruction?
If we treat the Sun as a source for photons, and the earth as a detector, then we can use a wave-function method to work out the probability of the Earth detecting a photon from the Sun and so make predictions about the observed solar photon flux at the earth. We can also work out the probability that it, instead, finds itself at some other opaque obstruction. The final destination of the photon remains uncertain until it arrives and is detected.

... it may be useful people who have attempted to help San K with these earlier threads to visit some of the recent ones as it seems that some misunderstandings persist.
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