Register to reply

Japan Earthquake: nuclear plants

by gmax137
Tags: earthquake, japan, nuclear
Share this thread:
zapperzero
#13627
Aug24-12, 10:46 AM
P: 1,045
Quote Quote by tsutsuji View Post
Actually the NHK does not say "presumably". Please consider my informations as short summaries or notes taken down after reading the NHK article rather than exact translations. More accurately, the NHK says:

死因は、心筋梗塞とみられるということです。

The cause of death [of the 22 August dead employee] is viewed as being a myocardial infarct, it was said.

福島第一原発では、去年3月の事故のあと、これまでに40代から60代の男性作業員4人が心筋梗塞などで亡くなっています。
Thank you so very much for the clarification.
mscharisma
#13628
Aug24-12, 12:08 PM
P: 82
Quote Quote by zapperzero View Post
...
Sure, exposure to radiocesium may or may not have direct, immediate effects on the cardiovascular system (iirc there was a study after Chernobyl, never repeated though). ...
As far as I'm concerned, that statement hits the nail on the head. If nothing else, Japan has - unfortunately - the opportunity and technology to do extensive studies, and it doesn't seem to be happening. Or at least not publicly, anyway (that I know of). Why on earth wouldn't deaths be further examined and investigated?
I don't think it has anything to do with being paranoid if one becomes inquisitive or even suspicious about that. Especially in light of the exposed practice to cover dosimeters or simply not wear them as necessary, a thorough examination should be done in this type of case to, at the very least, stop the practice of "cheating" with the dosimeters.
tsutsuji
#13629
Aug24-12, 01:54 PM
PF Gold
P: 1,220
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/genpatsu-...823/index.html In consequence of the dosimeter lead cover problem that was revealed last month, Tepco made an investigation on radiation exposure management and found 24 cases such as workers losing their dosimeter, or forgetting to carry it. In 19 cases workers lost their dosimeter on the work area or while changing clothes, and in 5 cases they forgot to take a dosimeter in the first place. Tepco made estimates of the radiations received by these workers, and the worst case is estimated to be 0.72 mSv for a 3 hour long work. On 10 August 2012 Tepco initiated a dosimeter checking policy, but on 16 August, one case was found where a worker had lost his dosimeter. Tepco said they want to intensify the recurrence prevention policy.
mscharisma
#13630
Aug24-12, 04:02 PM
P: 82
Quote Quote by tsutsuji View Post
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/genpatsu-...823/index.html In consequence of the dosimeter lead cover problem that was revealed last month, Tepco made an investigation on radiation exposure management ... .
As long as it is Tepco (or any other NPP operator) who makes investigations and provides statements that employee health problems/deaths are not radiation-related, they are, imho, pretty much meaningless. Too much self-interest involved. In fact, the entire accident management and mitigation procedures should have been overseen by an independent, preferably international body from day 1 or at least asap thereafter.
tsutsuji
#13631
Aug25-12, 06:03 AM
PF Gold
P: 1,220
http://www.meti.go.jp/committee/noti...120823003.html The 9th mid and long term meeting is scheduled on Monday from 10:00 to 12:00 AM at Tepco's main office in Tokyo.
SteveElbows
#13632
Aug26-12, 10:07 AM
P: 630
Hope something interesting is discussed on Monday, since there isnt very much new information to talk about these days.

In the meantime, this webcam video shows workers on top of the equipment pit crane of reactor 4, and an additional section of the southern platform around reactor 3 building being put into place. The actual movement into place of this piece occurs about half-way through the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w01H3xl3aiA
jim hardy
#13633
Aug27-12, 01:38 PM
Sci Advisor
PF Gold
jim hardy's Avatar
P: 3,736
i've worked in nuke protective coveralls in 110degF environment before and it is VERY stressful.

There's zero cooling from evaporation because of high humidity so you sweat soaks the coveralls. Tepco workers are likely wearing plastic over the cotton coveralls . Just imagine yourself inside an oven roasting bag, doing heavy phisical work.....

it's a game for young men or men who've built up copoius stamina through years of intense physical labor.

that middle aged people are having heart attacks is not at all surprising to me.

i been there

old jim
tsutsuji
#13634
Aug28-12, 12:10 AM
PF Gold
P: 1,220
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/genpatsu-...827/index.html Tepco started today (27 August) the visual inspection of the removed fresh fuel assemblies from unit 4 pool. They removed the metal tube and washed the fuel, and seen from the side no conspicuous damage or deformation was found. On the day after tomorrow they will check the handle part and the fuel itself. They will also check the second fuel assembly.
tsutsuji
#13635
Aug28-12, 09:16 AM
PF Gold
P: 1,220
The 9th mid & long term meeting was held on 27 August 2012: http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...120827_01.html

1) Previous related topics:

The 8th meeting (30 July 2012) http://www.physicsforums.com/showpos...ostcount=13588

The 7th meeting (25 June 2012) http://www.physicsforums.com/showpos...ostcount=13512

The 6th meeting (25 May 2012) : http://www.physicsforums.com/showpos...ostcount=13399

The 5th meeting (23 April 2012) : http://www.physicsforums.com/showpos...ostcount=12979

The 4th meeting (28 March 2012) : http://www.physicsforums.com/showpos...ostcount=12764

The 3rd meeting (27 February 2012) was translated into English on Tepco's website : http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/nu/fukushi...ference-e.html

2) Translation:

27 August 2012 government-Tokyo Electric mid and long term response committee, steering committee (9th meeting)

http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...120827_01a.pdf Agenda
http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...120827_01b.pdf Participants

Document 1
http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...120827_01c.pdf Abstract of the proceedings of 8th steering committee meeting

Document 2: Plant status
Document 2-1: Plant status
http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...120827_01d.pdf Plant parameters
http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...120827_01e.pdf Accumulated water storage status

Document 3 Study and execution of each special plan

3-1 Cooling by closed loop water injection
http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...120827_01f.pdf Schedule
http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...120827_01g.pdf Inspection inside unit 1's PCV
http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...120827_01h.pdf Installation of unit 2 PCV atmosphere thermometer
http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...120827_01j.pdf Nitrogen injection into unit 1's suppression chamber
http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...120827_01k.pdf Status of pipe water removal method study, toward the installation of unit 2 RPV alternative thermometer

3-2 Treatment of accumulated water
http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...120827_01m.pdf Schedule
http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...120827_01n.pdf Status of ground water bypass study
http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...120827_01p.pdf Simulation of quantities generated by accumulated water treatment, and installation of additional storage tanks
http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...120827_01q.pdf Additional tank installation plan
http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...120827_01r.pdf Multinuclide removal facility (ALPS) qualification test status

3-3 Countermeasures to reduce environmental radiations
http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...120827_01s.pdf Schedule
http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...120827_01t.pdf Consequences on water quality of the covering of the sea floor in the harbour
http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...120827_01u.pdf Results of evaluation of additional releases from reactor buildings
http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...120827_01v.pdf Unification of methods to evaluate radiation doses at site boundaries

3-4 Improvement of working conditions
http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...120827_01w.pdf Schedule
http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...120827_01x.pdf Countermeasures to fulfill radiation management at Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant
http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...120827_01y.pdf Guidelines in response to the APD dosimeter problem and execution schedule

3-5 Countermeasures for spent fuels pools
http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...120827_01z.pdf Schedule
http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...20827_01aa.pdf Debris removal work, reactor building top part, unit 3
http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...20827_01bb.pdf Debris removal work, reactor building top part, unit 4
http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...20827_01cc.pdf Unit 1 operating floor status survey results

3-6 Preparations for fuel debris removal
http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...20827_01dd.pdf Schedule

3-7 Treatment and disposal of radioactive waste
http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...20827_01ee.pdf Schedule
http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...20827_01ff.pdf Debris, cut down trees management status
http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...20827_01gg.pdf Cut down trees (branches, leaves, roots) temperature monitoring status

Document 4
http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...20827_01hh.pdf Evaluation in response to the radiation management report dealing with Alarm Pocket Dosimeter (APD) misuse

Document 5
http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...20827_01jj.pdf roadmap progress (abstract)

27 August 2012 government-Tokyo Electric mid and long term response committee, technical development progress headquarters (8th meeting) ( http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...120827_02.html )

http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...120827_02a.pdf Agenda

Document 1
http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...120827_02b.pdf Research and development plans toward the decommissioning of Tokyo Electric Fukushima Daiichi units 1~4 (abstract)

Document 2
http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...120827_02c.pdf Progress status of development of machinery and equipments to prepare fuel debris removal

Document 3
http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...120827_02d.pdf Fukushima workshop on development of machinery and equipments toward the decommissioning of Tokyo Electric Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant (abstract of results)
tsutsuji
#13636
Aug29-12, 03:21 AM
PF Gold
P: 1,220
Quote Quote by tsutsuji View Post
2) translation:

27 august 2012 government-tokyo electric mid and long term response committee, steering committee (9th meeting)

document 3 study and execution of each special plan

3-1 cooling by closed loop water injection
http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...120827_01h.pdf Installation of unit 2 pcv atmosphere thermometer
1/5

2/5

3/5
Attached Thumbnails
unit 2 PCV atmosphere thermometer 1of5.png   unit 2 PCV atmosphere thermometer 2of5.png   unit 2 PCV atmosphere thermometer 3of5.png  
tsutsuji
#13637
Aug29-12, 03:25 AM
PF Gold
P: 1,220
4/5

5/5
Attached Thumbnails
unit 2 PCV atmosphere thermometer 4of5.png   unit 2 PCV atmosphere thermometer 5of5.png  
zapperzero
#13638
Aug29-12, 05:34 AM
P: 1,045
Quote Quote by tsutsuji View Post

Shows temps trending up at all three reactors. What gives?
Rive
#13639
Aug29-12, 05:43 AM
P: 357
Quote Quote by zapperzero View Post
Shows temps trending up at all three reactors. What gives?
It's just summer. They had some plan to install some chillers for the main (cooling)water tanks, but I don't know the actual status of that plan.
tsutsuji
#13640
Aug29-12, 06:26 AM
PF Gold
P: 1,220
Quote Quote by Rive View Post
It's just summer. They had some plan to install some chillers for the main (cooling)water tanks, but I don't know the actual status of that plan.
In the following document: http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...120528_02g.pdf (28 May 2012, 6th mid and long term meeting) they said they wanted the chiller to be ready by the end of July.

http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...120827_01d.pdf says that the chiller was started on July 18.

The July 27th press release ( http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp...7086_1870.html ) says:

"After the full-scale operation of a freezing machine for cooling of treated water buffer tank retained water, the treated water buffer tank temperature declined. The Unit 1-3 RPV bottom temperature and PCV temperature declined accordingly. Since changes in temperature became stabilized, we reduced the amount of water injection into Unit1-3 reactor at 11:28 AM on July 27."

The August 13th press release ( http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp...1835_1870.html ) adds:

"We continued to observe the temporal changes of the plant parameter. Since increase in RPV bottom temperature and PCV temperature became stabilized, we reduced the amount of water injection into Unit 2 and 3 reactor at 11:02 AM on August 13".

The injected water temperature is the thin blue line between 10 and 25 C at the bottom of each plot in http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...120827_01d.pdf pages 2, 3 and 4.
zapperzero
#13641
Aug30-12, 02:10 AM
P: 1,045
Quote Quote by tsutsuji View Post
"We continued to observe the temporal changes of the plant parameter. Since increase in RPV bottom temperature and PCV temperature became stabilized, we reduced the amount of water injection into Unit 2 and 3 reactor at 11:02 AM on August 13".

The injected water temperature is the thin blue line between 10 and 25 C at the bottom of each plot in http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...120827_01d.pdf pages 2, 3 and 4.
So, you think we should attribute the increase to the lowered volume of cooling water?
tsutsuji
#13642
Aug30-12, 03:45 AM
PF Gold
P: 1,220
Quote Quote by tsutsuji View Post
2) Translation:

27 August 2012 government-Tokyo Electric mid and long term response committee, steering committee (9th meeting)

3-1 Cooling by closed loop water injection
http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...120827_01k.pdf Status of pipe water removal method study, toward the installation of unit 2 RPV alternative thermometer
1/7

2/7

3/7
Attached Thumbnails
alternative thermometers 1of7.png   alternative thermometers 2of7.png   alternative thermometers 3of7.png  
tsutsuji
#13643
Aug30-12, 03:48 AM
PF Gold
P: 1,220
4/7

5/7

6/7
Attached Thumbnails
alternative thermometers 4of7.png   alternative thermometers 5of7.png   alternative thermometers 6of7.png  
tsutsuji
#13644
Aug30-12, 03:50 AM
PF Gold
P: 1,220
7/7
Attached Thumbnails
alternative thermometers 7of7.png  


Register to reply

Related Discussions
8.9 earthquake in Japan: tsunami warnings Current Events 671
New Nuclear Plants Nuclear Engineering 9
Gen IV Nuclear Plants Nuclear Engineering 10
New Nuclear Plants Nuclear Engineering 14
Astronomer Predicts Major Earthquake for Japan General Discussion 65