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CIA Director David Petraeus submitted his resignation Friday

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russ_watters
#37
Nov10-12, 10:50 PM
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Quote Quote by MarneMath View Post
I brought it up t point out an error on your point. He is held to such a high standard because he was a leader of such a great amount of men and commanded a great deal of respect. I personally would hold any General officer or Senior NCO to the same standard.
Actually, it sounds like you are agreeing with me there.

And that is a reflection of the deeper issue that is behind the concept of fraternization: The idea of fraternization applies to the civilian world as well. The reason why fraternization is more serious the higher the rank (or, rather, the larger the difference in rank) is that rank is a reflection of power. The higher the rank of the higher ranking person, the more power he/she has and, implicitly, the more power over the underling. The underlying concept is actually the same as statutory rape.

Now make sure you understand this: I'm not saying this applies to General Petraeus. That wasn't the question I was asked. And my point was actually more general, I just gave a specific example that happened to be a legal one. Higher ranking persons are held to higher standards by virtue of their position, both in the military and outside the military. And that reality goes beyond the legal system.
MarneMath
#38
Nov10-12, 11:21 PM
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I would appreciate it if when you talked to me you would limit your condescending tone. Thank you. Secondly, again I fail to see how this little discourse of ours truly relates to the discussion at hand. I really do not want to distract from the topic at hand with a discussion of what fraternization means in the military and in the civilian world, thus my efforts to keep refocusing back to the main issue. However, if you feel incline to have a discussion about this, I would encourage a new thread topic somewhere.
lisab
#39
Nov13-12, 12:31 PM
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20301476

Yikes, another general is involved. Bad things happen when generals take orders from their privates.



Bad puns aside, this is really a terrible mess, and I hope this is as far as it goes.
edward
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Nov13-12, 02:12 PM
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Quote Quote by lisab View Post
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20301476

Yikes, another general is involved. Bad things happen when generals take orders from their privates.



Bad puns aside, this is really a terrible mess, and I hope this is as far as it goes.


I can't believe how this has turned into a really bad soap opera.

The official said 20,000 to 30,000 documents from Allen's communications with Kelley between 2010 and 2012 are under review. He would not say whether they involved sexual matters or whether they are thought to include unauthorized disclosures of classified information.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-...raeus-scandal/

That sounds like cyber sex, not that there is anything wrong with that unless you're married, oops they are all married with children.


But the FBI became concerned when the agent who initiated the investigation was discovered to have sent shirtless photos of himself to Kelly previously.

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/...#ixzz2C8S6Xh57

I think the FBI should have searched Jill Kelly's computer.
jobyts
#41
Nov13-12, 03:07 PM
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It all started with Broadwell's letter saying "stay away from my guy". Had she been more specific which guy, Jill Kelley would be less confused and might not have approached FBI :)
edward
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Nov13-12, 04:16 PM
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Quote Quote by jobyts View Post
It all started with Broadwell's letter saying "stay away from my guy". Had she been more specific which guy, Jill Kelley would be less confused and might not have approached FBI :)
There is a lot more to it than that. Why wasn't anyone suspicious when one woman, a volunteer social liaison, had access to so many Central Command Alliance officers at Mac Dill AFB.

Before long, the Kelley mansion became the place to be seen for coalition officers. Gen. David Petraeus, leader of U.S. Central Command at MacDill, marked his first celebration of the Gasparilla pirate parade on the Kelleys' lawn.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/militar...arties/1261272

Holy cr@p a person has to have a background check just to drive a bus these days.
AlephZero
#43
Nov13-12, 05:18 PM
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Some technical information about the email trail here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20310799

Apparently there was a deliberate strategy to conceal the information transfer, by two people both accessing the "draft emails" folder of the same anonymous account, instead of actually sending emails to each other which would have been easy to trace.
Astronuc
#44
Nov14-12, 05:01 PM
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Petraeus Scandal: Paula Broadwell in Classified Document Probe
http://gma.yahoo.com/broadwell-class...114054139.html

Paula Broadwell, the author who allegedly had an affair with former CIA Director David Petraeus, is suspected of storing significant amounts of military documents, including classified material, at her home, potentially in violation of federal law.

A source familiar with case told ABC News that Broadwell admitted to the FBI she took the documents from secure government buildings. The government demanded that they all be given back, and when federal agents descended on her North Carolina home on Monday night it was a pre-arranged meeting.

. . . .
That is a serious matter.

One should not remove classified documents from secure facilities, nor store them in one's home, without authorization and proper security.
Jimmy Snyder
#45
Nov14-12, 05:55 PM
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Now the chairman of Waffle House is in the same fix.

LA Times

As in the Petraeus case, the problem is not the sex, it's the security breach. The question is whether any secret recipes were leaked to Huddle House, IHOP, and Denny's.
Borg
#46
Nov14-12, 06:12 PM
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Quote Quote by lisab View Post
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20301476

Yikes, another general is involved. Bad things happen when generals take orders from their privates.



Bad puns aside, this is really a terrible mess, and I hope this is as far as it goes.
That is a great quote lisab!
Evo
#47
Nov14-12, 06:56 PM
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It seems Paula Broadwell was in this for herself and a bit emotionally unhinged.

Jill Kelley seems to be another flake
The official described Kelley as a "nice, bored rich socialite who drops the honorary from her title... and tells people she is an ambassador.
http://gma.yahoo.com/broadwell-class...114054139.html
edward
#48
Nov14-12, 09:09 PM
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Quote Quote by Astronuc View Post
Petraeus Scandal: Paula Broadwell in Classified Document Probe
http://gma.yahoo.com/broadwell-class...114054139.html

That is a serious matter.

One should not remove classified documents from secure facilities, nor store them in one's home, without authorization and proper security.
Apparently she did have proper security clearance or she wouldn't have had access to the documents in the first place. Both she and the general must not have planned on ever being caught. Committing adultery voids a security clearance.

Under federal law, if Broadwell has classified material in her home she must show she has authority to have it, that it relates to her work in military intelligence and that she is following all security and safety measures to safeguard the material, military officials told CNN.

"I had to follow very clear lines of non-disclosure and sign non-disclosure agreements, like my colleagues. I felt like I was almost held to a higher level of accountability because I could lose my clearance," Broadwell said in a speech last year. "I think it was important to inform my writing, but I knew there was a clear line that I couldn't cross when I was writing it out."
http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2012/1...ied-clearance/

The thing that disturbs me the most is that the "flake" lady in Florida had so much access to the top brass of the Central Command Coalition and to the AFB itself. She could have turned out to be a modern day Mata Hari.

More than likely she just liked to play touchy feely with guys who have shiny objects and ribbons on their jackets. She even knew the FBI agent she contacted, before reporting the e-mails, to the point that he had sent her a shirtless picture of himself.

If it wasn't so tragic it would be total soap opera stuff.
russ_watters
#49
Nov14-12, 09:28 PM
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This is interesting: Broadwell was giving a speech in October and revealed some information that still hasn't been confirmed about the attack in Benghazi, implying it was information that she learned through Petraeus: http://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/...11/12/1699133/
Monsterboy
#50
Nov15-12, 03:30 AM
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Behind every successful man there is a women but there is also one, behind his resignation.
MarneMath
#51
Nov15-12, 04:35 AM
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Does it imply that? I'm unsure if she's still in the service, but if she still is in the reserves, as an officer with TSCi, she should have access to JWIC. I imagine such information would be present there. Now talking about information there, probably not the best idea.

*JWIC - system used to contain Secret and Top Secret information.
BobG
#52
Nov15-12, 06:15 AM
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Quote Quote by edward View Post
Apparently she did have proper security clearance or she wouldn't have had access to the documents in the first place. Both she and the general must not have planned on ever being caught. Committing adultery voids a security clearance.
An on-going affair usually voids a security clearance. Actually, though, once your affair is publicized in newspapers and TV stations all over the world, it doesn't have much blackmail value anymore.

The fact that a person had an affair at least once does raise questions about how likely he/her is to get themselves into that situation again, though, just as financial problems do.

But, running into financial problems because you were a low ranking enlisted person having to move their family from an overseas base back to the US is not the same as running into financial problems because you're obsessed with impressing friends and relatives. The first can be recovered from, while the second maybe not so much (although a person still in the middle of recovering from some legitimate financial disaster probably wouldn't be very likely to get a security clearance).

Likewise, not all affairs are equal.

And taking away a general's retirement pay for adultery would be absurd. Adultery isn't actually an offense in itself. It would be punished for the effect it has (disrupting morale, etc); not for the behavior itself. And each branch of the military handles adultery and fraternization slightly differently. In fact, actually getting punished for adultery is pretty rare. You pretty much have to be an idiot about it (have an affair with someone that works for you, the spouse of someone in your organization, etc - in other words, your affair has to cause problems).
lisab
#53
Nov15-12, 09:34 AM
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Quote Quote by edward View Post
The thing that disturbs me the most is that the "flake" lady in Florida had so much access to the top brass of the Central Command Coalition and to the AFB itself. She could have turned out to be a modern day Mata Hari.

More than likely she just liked to play touchy feely with guys who have shiny objects and ribbons on their jackets. She even knew the FBI agent she contacted, before reporting the e-mails, to the point that he had sent her a shirtless picture of himself.

If it wasn't so tragic it would be total soap opera stuff.
Yes, I keep coming back to this woman, too, and asking the same questions. She seemed pretty good at worming her way into the confidence of top brass. That's disconcerting.
russ_watters
#54
Nov15-12, 09:58 AM
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Quote Quote by MarneMath View Post
Does it imply that? I'm unsure if she's still in the service, but if she still is in the reserves, as an officer with TSCi, she should have access to JWIC. I imagine such information would be present there. Now talking about information there, probably not the best idea.

*JWIC - system used to contain Secret and Top Secret information.
Does the CIA utilize the same database? I would expect this information to be special access.

The reason it implies a Petreus connection:
1. Its CIA.
2. She discusses his use of theinformation in the same context as she mentions the information.


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