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Sick freak kills first-graders

by Jack21222
Tags: firstgraders, freak, kills, sick
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Astronuc
#163
Dec16-12, 11:35 AM
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Quote Quote by enosis_ View Post
I thought the killer used hand guns?
I have heard and read several variants regarding the guns used. I have heard 2 handguns, a rifle or combination. I heard 3 guns were found by the body of Adam Lanza, or 2 handguns with the rifle still in the car.

But
All the victims at the school were shot with a rifle, at least some of them up close, and all were apparently shot more than once, Chief Medical Examiner Dr. H. Wayne Carver said. There were as many as 11 shots on the bodies he examined.
. . . .
The rifle used was a Bushmaster .223-caliber, according to an official with knowledge of the investigation who was not authorized to speak about it and talked on condition of anonymity. The gun is commonly seen at competitions and was the type used in the 2002 sniper killings in the Washington, D.C., area. Also found in the school were two handguns, a Glock 10 mm and a Sig Sauer 9 mm.
. . . .
Gov.: Gunman shot self as 1st responders closed in
http://news.yahoo.com/gov-gunman-sho...152837726.html

It seems in the absence of facts, some media fill in the details themselves. In other words, stuff gets made up on the fly in order to tell a story, and grab an audience. Clearly there is an economic incentive to sensationalize the news in order to attract/build an audience and sell advertising.

The media seem reluctant to admit that they don't have the facts or that what they are reporting is preliminary and unverified/unsubstantiated. That's shameful.


It's now being reported that the principal, Dawn Hochsprung, and school psychologist, Mary Sherlach, tried to rush Lanza and were killed during the attempt.
justsomeguy
#164
Dec16-12, 11:41 AM
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Quote Quote by Astronuc View Post
It seems in the absence of facts, some media fill in the details themselves. In other words, stuff gets made up on the fly in order to tell a story, and grab an audience. Clearly there is an economic incentive to sensationalize the news in order to attract/build an audience and sell advertising.

The media seem reluctant to admit that they don't have the facts or that what they are reporting is preliminary and unverified/unsubstantiated. That's shameful.
This isn't really new. I know some psycho shot a bunch of little kids at a school, doesn't really matter to me how many or what kind of guns he used or what his exact path through the school was.
edward
#165
Dec16-12, 03:23 PM
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Quote Quote by enosis_ View Post
from your link edward... ""All of the wounds I know of were caused by a rifle,'' he said."

Apparently the primary weapon used has not been reported yet?
The fact that the Bushmaster was used in all of the shootings had been clarified. The "HE" is the local coroner and he did know what weapon was used. Shooting the victims multiple times with a .223 caliber was what I meant when I stated "it doesn't get any more violent than this".

As a matter of fact this was a slaughter. IMHO This guy apparently wanted to see a lot of blood. Blood keeps gushing from wounds as long as the heart is still beating.

Now we know that the shooter had also pulled the hardrive from his computer and smashed it.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/c...3.story?page=2
edward
#166
Dec16-12, 03:24 PM
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Quote Quote by justsomeguy View Post
This isn't really new. I know some psycho shot a bunch of little kids at a school, doesn't really matter to me how many or what kind of guns he used or what his exact path through the school was.
This thread isn't about what matters to you.
enosis_
#167
Dec16-12, 05:06 PM
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Quote Quote by edward View Post
The fact that the Bushmaster was used in all of the shootings had been clarified. The "HE" is the local coroner and he did know what weapon was used. Shooting the victims multiple times with a .223 caliber was what I meant when I stated "it doesn't get any more violent than this".

As a matter of fact this was a slaughter. IMHO This guy apparently wanted to see a lot of blood. Blood keeps gushing from wounds as long as the heart is still beating.

Now we know that the shooter had also pulled the hardrive from his computer and smashed it.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/c...3.story?page=2
Your link says the killer was known to play a violent video game
SixNein
#168
Dec16-12, 05:07 PM
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If anything came out of this shooting, it is the outpouring of love for guns. I mentioned on facebook that some regulations need to come down on weapons, and one would have thought I declared myself a follower of Hitler or Stalin from all of the reactions. But the fact is America does have a very severe gun problem, and it also seems to have a very poor perception of risk.

Any proposed regulation on gun sales will be ineffective because we have an estimated 300 million guns in circulation. So I think the only way to prevent these types of events is to begin rationing bullets. One should have to go through a rigorous background check to obtain bullets, they should state the purpose of buying the bullets, and the bullets should be rationed based upon the stated purpose. If one needs bullets for home protection, he or she should be given enough bullets to provide such protection and not a single bullet over it. All of this should be put into databases, and people violating the rules should be identified and punished.

So under such a plan, people can keep their guns and have all they want. But the bullets are rationed without respect to how many guns one owns.
OmCheeto
#169
Dec16-12, 05:53 PM
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Quote Quote by edward View Post
This thread isn't about what matters to you.
Did I ever tell you about the time I thought you were from Oregon, because your avatar looks like a Chia-car?
nsaspook
#170
Dec16-12, 06:04 PM
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Quote Quote by enosis_ View Post
Your link says the killer was known to play a violent video game
Not surprised, as it's consistent with the overall "threat assessment" profile. In isolation it means nothing. We need to use a threat assessment approach when dealing with these kind of people at a young age. It's not classic profiling or looking for possibly dangerous people. It's looking at "pathways to violent action", what set of behaviors and conditions that have lead to violence in the past.

http://www.secretservice.gov/ntac/ntac_bsl99.pdf
Astronuc
#171
Dec16-12, 06:26 PM
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I'm sure the FBI and law enforcement agencies are collecting evidence and working hard to build a profile of Lanza in order to cevelop a better threat assessment model.

Meahwhile Yahoo reports that police report -
Investigators said he possessed "multiple high-capacity magazines" for all three weapons.

Police haven't revealed how many bullets Lanza fired during his 10-minute shooting spree, but admit he still had many more live rounds with him when he took his own life as first responders closed in.

"Hundreds of bullets, yes," said Lt. J. Paul Vance, a spokesman for the Connecticut State Police.

. . . .
The victims at the school were shot multiple times, and apparently Lanza shot his mother multiple times. He was apparently determined to take many more lives.

So I would imagine that investigators will explore the accumulation of his stockpile and try to decide how to apply that in the future.

I would imagine that the question to be asked at some point is "how to keep guns out of the hands of people who are intent on committing mass homicide?"
edward
#172
Dec16-12, 06:46 PM
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Quote Quote by enosis_ View Post
Your link says the killer was known to play a violent video game
That is true. ??
edward
#173
Dec16-12, 06:49 PM
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Magazines that fed bullets into the primary firearm used to kill 26 children and adults at a Connecticut school would have been banned under state legislation that the National Rifle Association and gunmakers successfully fought.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-1...-pressure.html
nsaspook
#174
Dec16-12, 06:59 PM
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Quote Quote by Astronuc View Post

I would imagine that the question to be asked at some point is "how to keep guns out of the hands of people who are intent on committing mass homicide?"
I'm sure the question will be asked and answered. A more useful question is how do we find the people who are likely to have the intent to commit mass homicide with guns or any other weapon before the decision is made.
encorp
#175
Dec16-12, 07:20 PM
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Quote Quote by Evo View Post
I think once we find out what the school district suggested for the killer that the mother opposed, to the point of taking him out of school and home schooling him, we'll have the answer if not be very close.

From what school friends have said, it's likely the school wanted him assessed for mental problems. Especially his talk of wanting to "blow things up".

I think the mother wanted to "cover up" her son's mental problems.

Mom: you want to "blow things up? I bought a bunch of guns, let's go to the shooting range". IMO to above. Except these are all things that happened, with the exception of the exact conversation. and THIS IS OFF TOPIC, ok? so let's not go there.

Rule of thumb, if it's part of the investigation, guns used, mother, mental illness, etc... that's ok.

See previous posts with links to the items in this post.

And before someone says again that I am against gun ownership, no I am just against certain guns, and artillery. And the capacity and the number. A homeowner doesn't need a highpowered arsenal to scare off a robber.
That and his mother was preparing for the "end of the world" so to speak, so she probably impressed a lot (of bad) on his fragile mind.

Though I believe strict gun control is super important.. I don't think it would have stopped this in this situation, I think that there are a lot of issues. One of them being that we so easily allow the media to propagate "end of world" hype that feeds people like this guys mother and sets the stage for this kind of thing.
Adyssa
#176
Dec16-12, 07:41 PM
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Quote Quote by nsaspook View Post
I'm sure the question will be asked and answered. A more useful question is how do we find the people who are likely to have the intent to commit mass homicide with guns or any other weapon before the decision is made.
a) read minds
b) make generalizations about various types of people and lock anyone who ticks enough boxes up
c) lock everyone up

It all gets very Orwellian. Personally, I think

d) make weapons less available

is a far more reasonable choice. Of course, people that like shooting things are going to be upset, but you know what, I don't care two hoots about people that like shooting things, for sport, for protection, for whatever. The rest of us enjoy non-violent hobbies and deal with problems of personal safety in non-violent ways.

At the macro level, we are all people of the world but we fence ourselves in. Go and get to know your neighbours (even the ones that dress funny, or talk funny), be compassionate towards the poor and outcast, help out in your community, be the person that helps some young rascal find a path that doesn't lead to violence and despair. We all turn a blind eye to the parts of society that don't match our own little happy ideals, and it is we that are guilty of ignoring problems until they become massacres. You don't need more security, you need more heart. If this young lad had a well-intentioned friend he might not have done what he did. It's not an instant fix, but there is no instant fix. The road to peace requires patience and diligence from everybody.

People throw their arms up and say it's all too hard, and I say they're the weakest most pathetic example of what a human could and should be. Nothing worthwhile is accomplished with ease.

I guess we could always arm the teachers, and the kids, and the parents, and lockdown the schools, and install CCTV everywhere, and predict what crimes this and that individual might intend to commit and take them out pre-emptively, and I mean, if we're heading down this road, why not just put everyone who doesn't act and look like Everybody Loves Raymond in a big dark hole and bury them all? The couple of million white, middle class Americans that are left can all have a great time together.
Evo
#177
Dec16-12, 08:09 PM
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Quote Quote by Adyssa View Post
a) read minds
b) make generalizations about various types of people and lock anyone who ticks enough boxes up
c) lock everyone up

It all gets very Orwellian. Personally, I think

d) make weapons less available

is a far more reasonable choice. Of course, people that like shooting things are going to be upset, but you know what, I don't care two hoots about people that like shooting things, for sport, for protection, for whatever. The rest of us enjoy non-violent hobbies and deal with problems of personal safety in non-violent ways.

At the macro level, we are all people of the world but we fence ourselves in. Go and get to know your neighbours (even the ones that dress funny, or talk funny), be compassionate towards the poor and outcast, help out in your community, be the person that helps some young rascal find a path that doesn't lead to violence and despair. We all turn a blind eye to the parts of society that don't match our own little happy ideals, and it is we that are guilty of ignoring problems until they become massacres. You don't need more security, you need more heart. If this young lad had a well-intentioned friend he might not have done what he did. It's not an instant fix, but there is no instant fix. The road to peace requires patience and diligence from everybody.

People throw their arms up and say it's all too hard, and I say they're the weakest most pathetic example of what a human could and should be. Nothing worthwhile is accomplished with ease.

I guess we could always arm the teachers, and the kids, and the parents, and lockdown the schools, and install CCTV everywhere, and predict what crimes this and that individual might intend to commit and take them out pre-emptively, and I mean, if we're heading down this road, why not just put everyone who doesn't act and look like Everybody Loves Raymond in a big dark hole and bury them all? The couple of million white, middle class Americans that are left can all have a great time together.
Excellent post, thank you.
edward
#178
Dec16-12, 08:44 PM
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Quote Quote by OmCheeto View Post
Did I ever tell you about the time I thought you were from Oregon, because your avatar looks like a Chia-car?
Is this post your way of telling me I need to CHILL a bit? If so you are right. I do.
nsaspook
#179
Dec16-12, 08:47 PM
P: 663
Quote Quote by Adyssa View Post
a) read minds
b) make generalizations about various types of people and lock anyone who ticks enough boxes up
c) lock everyone up

It all gets very Orwellian. Personally, I think

d) make weapons less available

is a far more reasonable choice. Of course, people that like shooting things are going to be upset, but you know what, I don't care two hoots about people that like shooting things, for sport, for protection, for whatever. The rest of us enjoy non-violent hobbies and deal with problems of personal safety in non-violent ways.
I hope you feel better now but "Orwellian make weapons less available" ranting won't solve anything. "I don't care" is a very effective argument about your position.
Drakkith
#180
Dec16-12, 08:47 PM
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Perhaps the best thing would be to do nothing. Further gun control? Less freedom. More safeguards in schools? Less freedoms for our younger citizens. Where do you stop? You are NOT going to be able to stop people from killing each other. Period. End of story. So you MUST accept the fact that people are going to kill other people. Knowing this, how far do you go to try to curb it? At what point do you say "You know what, we've done enough."

I know that I don't know. I suggest everyone think long and hard about how far you would be willing to go and ask yourself if you are willing to give up freedoms YOU like in the name of safety. Because I believe that is the issue here.


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