Sick freak kills first-graders


by Jack21222
Tags: firstgraders, freak, kills, sick
justsomeguy
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#181
Dec16-12, 08:58 PM
P: 166
Quote Quote by Drakkith View Post
I know that I don't know. I suggest everyone think long and hard about how far you would be willing to go and ask yourself if you are willing to give up freedoms YOU like in the name of safety. Because I believe that is the issue here.
This does bring the whole thread of discussion full circle. It's worth asking if giving up additional freedoms will make you more secure as well, before considering giving them up. For that matter, you need to ask, secure against what? In some cases, especially the gun control argument, more security against one type of threat leads directly to less security against another kind.
encorp
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#182
Dec16-12, 09:49 PM
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What bothers me most is that there are people out there who feel completely comfortable with a loss of life such as this being an acceptable price of admission for gun freedom.
justsomeguy
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#183
Dec16-12, 09:56 PM
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Quote Quote by encorp View Post
What bothers me most is that there are people out there who feel completely comfortable with a loss of life such as this being an acceptable price of admission for gun freedom.
I haven't heard of anyone expressing such a feeling, though there are many who believe that had that freedom been less restricted than it is, that this tragedy would have been averted.
Drakkith
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#184
Dec16-12, 10:02 PM
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Quote Quote by encorp View Post
What bothers me most is that there are people out there who feel completely comfortable with a loss of life such as this being an acceptable price of admission for gun freedom.
And some people are bothered that there are people out there who are completely comfortable with banning guns just because a small portion of people overall do bad things with them.
edward
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#185
Dec16-12, 10:05 PM
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Quote Quote by justsomeguy View Post
This does bring the whole thread of discussion full circle. It's worth asking if giving up additional freedoms will make you more secure as well, before considering giving them up. For that matter, you need to ask, secure against what? In some cases, especially the gun control argument, more security against one type of threat leads directly to less security against another kind.

Actually no, the question will turn out to be do we give up high capacity magazines for the ones we all used a few years back before the high capacity magazines became available.

The original purpose of the NRA was to teach young American males to be better marksmen. More recently that bastardized into spraying as much lead as possible, when the profit potential became obvious.
justsomeguy
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#186
Dec16-12, 10:08 PM
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Quote Quote by edward View Post
Actually no, the question will turn out to be do we give up high capacity magazines for the ones we all used a few years back before the high capacity magazines became available.
Who's "we all"? I've had so called "high capacity" magazines my entire life.

The original purpose of the NRA was to teach young American males to be better marksmen. More recently that bastardized into spraying as much lead as possible, when the profit potential became obvious.
The NRA has always been about protecting the second amendment, but what's that got to do with anything?
nsaspook
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#187
Dec16-12, 10:09 PM
P: 494
Quote Quote by justsomeguy View Post
This does bring the whole thread of discussion full circle. It's worth asking if giving up additional freedoms will make you more secure as well, before considering giving them up. For that matter, you need to ask, secure against what? In some cases, especially the gun control argument, more security against one type of threat leads directly to less security against another kind.
When you see a defacto police state like China having the same problems it makes you think about how effective the tradition containment solutions of "limits on weapons" and government people control will be in controlling these types of events. They have restrictions on the length of knives you can buy without having to register them with their national identity cards and overall crime is low but mass attacks still happen with frightening frequency there.
Evo
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#188
Dec16-12, 10:19 PM
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Quote Quote by nsaspook View Post
When you see a defacto police state like China having the same problems it makes you think about how effective the tradition containment solutions of "limits on weapons" and government people control will be in controlling these types of events. They have restrictions on the length of knives you can buy without having to register them with their national identity cards and overall crime is low but mass attacks still happen with frightening frequency there.
But fatalities are limited.

Let's not make this another "gun thread" as they very quickly get closed as people become overly emotional.

Discussion needs to be about the shooter, you can discuss his use of his guns specifically, his family, and the impact on the community.

Thanks.
justsomeguy
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#189
Dec16-12, 10:21 PM
P: 166
"make weapons less available...I don't give two hoots about people that enjoy shooting" gets an "excellent post, thank you" but refutation of that position gets a "lets not make this about guns?" Sorry, but I'm smelling a double standard.
Evo
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#190
Dec16-12, 10:37 PM
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Quote Quote by justsomeguy View Post
"make weapons less available...I don't give two hoots about people that enjoy shooting" gets an "excellent post, thank you" but refutation of that position gets a "lets not make this about guns?" Sorry, but I'm smelling a double standard.
I can lock the thread now and go back and delete every off topic post in this thread and reduce it to two pages, or I can request that the thread get back on topic before it gets locked.

Which do you prefer?
justsomeguy
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#191
Dec16-12, 10:41 PM
P: 166
Quote Quote by Evo View Post
I can lock the thread now and go back and delete every off topic post in this thread and reduce it to two pages, or I can request that the thread get back on topic before it gets locked.

Which do you prefer?
Either is fine. What I'm raising a flag over is you participating in the line of discussion you're asking to be stopped. I expect you to enforce the rules of course. I don't expect you to do so only when the comments disagree with your personal positions.

The warning, I must say, was entirely expected.
Evo
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#192
Dec16-12, 10:46 PM
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Quote Quote by justsomeguy View Post
Either is fine. What I'm raising a flag over is you participating in the line of discussion you're asking to be stopped. I expect you to enforce the rules of course. I don't expect you to do so only when the comments disagree with your personal positions.

The warning, I must say, was entirely expected.
Many people have expressed their opinion, including me. When the thread starts to get too derailed, it's time to bring it back. This is not my first request to get back on topic.
russ_watters
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#193
Dec16-12, 10:49 PM
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We should probably always create parallel threads for these sorts of things: one to talk about the incident itself, one to talk about gun control.
Evo
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#194
Dec16-12, 10:52 PM
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Quote Quote by russ_watters View Post
We should probably always create parallel threads for these sorts of things: one to talk about the incident itself, one to talk about gun control.
We've had too many gun control threads and recently. Another is not going to go anywhere the previous haven't gone. So, no gun control threads until a new law is proposed that could change things and that bears discussing.
mheslep
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#195
Dec17-12, 10:12 AM
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Quote Quote by arildno View Post
This is a dreadful event, and my condolences to all Americans in general.
Thanks Arildno.
nitsuj
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#196
Dec17-12, 10:19 AM
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Quote Quote by Pythagorean View Post
My guess at the majority of violent crime in the US:

Parents in neglected communities who have to work hard leave their kids to run the neighborhood; education system (or lack of) in a neglected area doesn't make the most effective child care. Children get raised by other children who have children before they become adults. Emotions and tribal behavior dominate the culture. Warped sense of family values and no education.
For the most part, I agree.
mheslep
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#197
Dec17-12, 10:24 AM
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Quote Quote by CAC1001 View Post
These are the types of people who claim God will punish America for embracing gay marriage (like the Chick-Fil-A guy).
"the types of people"?

No, Huckabee is not a Falwell, God-will-punish-you type of homophobe.
mheslep
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#198
Dec17-12, 10:34 AM
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Quote Quote by CAC1001 View Post
... All one needs is one rifle or handgun to go and commit a mass killing.
With a bolt action only rifle, even a very high powered model, a mass killing would require a fairly high degree of planning, skill, and probably training, especially indoors.


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