Sick freak kills first-graders

Evo

Quote by nsaspook

When you see a defacto police state like China having the same problems it makes you think about how effective the tradition containment solutions of "limits on weapons" and government people control will be in controlling these types of events. They have restrictions on the length of knives you can buy without having to register them with their national identity cards and overall crime is low but mass attacks still happen with frightening frequency there.

But fatalities are limited.

Let's not make this another "gun thread" as they very quickly get closed as people become overly emotional.

Discussion needs to be about the shooter, you can discuss his use of his guns specifically, his family, and the impact on the community.

Thanks.

justsomeguy

"make weapons less available...I don't give two hoots about people that enjoy shooting" gets an "excellent post, thank you" but refutation of that position gets a "lets not make this about guns?" Sorry, but I'm smelling a double standard.

Evo

Quote by justsomeguy

"make weapons less available...I don't give two hoots about people that enjoy shooting" gets an "excellent post, thank you" but refutation of that position gets a "lets not make this about guns?" Sorry, but I'm smelling a double standard.

I can lock the thread now and go back and delete every off topic post in this thread and reduce it to two pages, or I can request that the thread get back on topic before it gets locked.

Which do you prefer?

justsomeguy

Quote by Evo

I can lock the thread now and go back and delete every off topic post in this thread and reduce it to two pages, or I can request that the thread get back on topic before it gets locked.

Which do you prefer?

Either is fine. What I'm raising a flag over is you participating in the line of discussion you're asking to be stopped. I expect you to enforce the rules of course. I don't expect you to do so only when the comments disagree with your personal positions.

The warning, I must say, was entirely expected.

Evo

Quote by justsomeguy

Either is fine. What I'm raising a flag over is you participating in the line of discussion you're asking to be stopped. I expect you to enforce the rules of course. I don't expect you to do so only when the comments disagree with your personal positions.

The warning, I must say, was entirely expected.

Many people have expressed their opinion, including me. When the thread starts to get too derailed, it's time to bring it back. This is not my first request to get back on topic.

russ_watters

We should probably always create parallel threads for these sorts of things: one to talk about the incident itself, one to talk about gun control.

Evo

Quote by russ_watters

We should probably always create parallel threads for these sorts of things: one to talk about the incident itself, one to talk about gun control.

We've had too many gun control threads and recently. Another is not going to go anywhere the previous haven't gone. So, no gun control threads until a new law is proposed that could change things and that bears discussing.

mheslep

Quote by arildno

This is a dreadful event, and my condolences to all Americans in general.

Thanks Arildno.

nitsuj

Quote by Pythagorean

My guess at the majority of violent crime in the US:

Parents in neglected communities who have to work hard leave their kids to run the neighborhood; education system (or lack of) in a neglected area doesn't make the most effective child care. Children get raised by other children who have children before they become adults. Emotions and tribal behavior dominate the culture. Warped sense of family values and no education.

For the most part, I agree.

mheslep

Quote by CAC1001

These are the types of people who claim God will punish America for embracing gay marriage (like the Chick-Fil-A guy).

"the types of people"?

No, Huckabee is not a Falwell, God-will-punish-you type of homophobe.

mheslep

Quote by CAC1001

... All one needs is one rifle or handgun to go and commit a mass killing.

With a bolt action only rifle, even a very high powered model, a mass killing would require a fairly high degree of planning, skill, and probably training, especially indoors.

jedishrfu

Baltimore Sun article on the Bushmaster:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opi...,2421497.story

Sentiment may be changing.

and on I am Adam Lanzas Mom

http://healthland.time.com/2012/12/1...-main-mostpop2

These articles should be the ones that frame debate on how to solve this problem.

turbo

Quote by mheslep

With a bolt action only rifle, even a very high powered model, a mass killing would require a fairly high degree of planning, skill, and probably training, especially indoors.

My hunting rifle is a Ruger Model 1 chambered for .45-70. If you need more than one shot, you shouldn't be shooting at deer. One shot, one deer.

I have no particular beef against semi-automatic rifles with clips, but anybody who has to own a rifle styled like a military issue (M16 or AK47 for instance) has issues. One of the companies I consulted with many years back was Bushmaster, with a plant in southern Maine. The manager was quite proud of their ability to produce accurized and heavy fluted target barrels. That's all well and good, but most of their clientele wanted the Bushmasters because they looked "bad".

I don't want a fringe of gun-owners to ruin it for the rest of us.

BTW, the sicko could have killed a lot of kids with very old technology, if he had wanted. I sold my collection of antique Winchester lever actions years back to buy a couple of Canon cameras and some lenses. Some of those Winchesters were deadly tack-drivers. .38-55 is not such a popular caliber these days, but out on the target range, it was impossible to beat. You don't need to have a Bushmaster to kill a whole bunch of people. I probably won't be able to watch the evening news for the rest of the week, while idiots blather about the killer's arsenal and re-trace his route through the school. [rant mode off]

Evo

Obviously being autistic was not the issue, we don't even know if he had autism spectrum disorder, he apparently had at least one mental disorder that caused him to be violent that would be outside of the autism spectrum. We don't even know if the mother had him diagnosed or sought professional help for him. She might have been ashamed and just hoped people didn't find out. IMO.

My question is why, since this mother obviously knew her son had serious problems, as is referenced in the article below, would she give him guns? If this woman was alive, I wouldn't be surprised if she would be charged for her role in giving her underaged mentally ill son access to such an enormous amount of ammunition in addition to the guns.

Nancy Lanza, whose gun collection was raided by her son Adam for Friday’s massacre at Sandy Hook school, was part of the “prepper” movement, which urges readiness for social chaos by hoarding supplies and training with weapons.

“She prepared for the worst,” her sister-in-law Marsha Lanza told reporters. “Last time we visited her in person, we talked about prepping – are you ready for what could happen down the line, when the economy collapses?”

It also emerged that Mrs Lanza had spoken of her fears less than a week before the attack that she was “losing” her son. “She said it was getting worse.

continued...

http://www.salon.com/2012/12/17/nanc...per/singleton/

turbo

There are degrees of preparation. (not that I ever thought of it that way) One of my great-aunts was never without at least 100# of flour and probably 50# of sugar, and a truck-load of canned goods. Her house was tidy and neat, but head down into the cellar and be prepared to be inundated with staple foods. Suffering through the Depression and struggling to feed one's kids can do that, I guess.

Her male progeny and my mother's brothers were well-armed. though. We needed to hunt to have meat. When I was old enough to be trusted, my father told me that I had only rarely eaten beef before then because he and my older male relatives routinely poached moose to feed us. They couldn't afford to buy us beef.

Evo

Quote by turbo

There are degrees of preparation. (not that I ever thought of it that way) One of my great-aunts was never without at least 100# of flour and probably 50# of sugar, and a truck-load of canned goods. Her house was tidy and neat, but head down into the cellar and be prepared to be inundated with staple foods. Suffering through the Depression and struggling to feed one's kids can do that, I guess.

Her male progeny and my mother's brothers were well-armed. though. We needed to hunt to have meat. When I was old enough to be trusted, my father told me that I had only rarely eaten beef before then because he and my older male relatives routinely poached moose to feed us. They couldn't afford to buy us beef.

This has nothing to do with fearing a "doomsday" event, or as her sister described her

Marsha Lanza told the Chicago Sun-Times that Nancy Lanza wanted guns for protection. "She prepared for the worst," Marsha Lanza told the newspaper. "I didn't know that they (the guns) would be used on her."

http://news.yahoo.com/gunmans-mother...010414000.html

She was rich. Please don't make off topic posts.

Astronuc

There is still a lot we on the outside do not know regarding the precursors to the tragedy of last Friday. It will take time for the authorities to do their investigation.

The tragedy, the loss of innocent life, is for many of us beyond words. Future actions will not resurrect those 20 children and 6 adults.

Beyond the grief, we perhaps can look forward for ways to prevent such occurrences in the future. That is the topic of a different thread.

Reflecting of the past 3 days, I think we need to maintain a healthy amount of skepticism at what is being reported in the media (the details changed so often, and erroneous information was presented), and to the extent possible, maintain a rational perspective while absorbing the news of a heart-breaking, gut-wrenching event.

This morning the NY Times published the following:
Gunman Took Big Supply of Ammunition to School After Killing Mother at Home
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/17/ny...n-newtown.html

Lt. J. Paul Vance, a spokesman for the Connecticut State Police, said most of the shots were fired from a .223 Bushmaster semiautomatic carbine, a military-style assault weapon. Mr. Lanza was also carrying two semiautomatic pistols, a 10-millimeter Glock and a 9-millimeter Sig Sauer. A shotgun was found in the car.

The guns were legally acquired and registered by Ms. Lanza, who had sometimes taken her son to shooting ranges, according to law enforcement officials and her friends. Mr. Lanza, who former classmates said had had a developmental disorder, lived with his mother.

While Lieutenant Vance said he did not yet know how many bullets had been fired, he did say investigators recovered “numerous” empty 30-round magazines for the Bushmaster rifle.

So it appears that the gunman had at least 4 guns, one which was left in the car, and he used the other 3, and mostly the semi-automatic carbine (assuming that's the right term).

And the investigation is ongoing -
Gunman’s computers may be key in Connecticut school shooting investigation
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/...174438304.html

Similar discussions for: Sick freak kills first-graders
Thread	Forum	Replies
Teaching Fractals to Ninth Graders	Educators & Teaching	1
Explaining Black Holes to 5th Graders	General Discussion	28
Extracurricular activity for third graders	General Discussion	0
Pointers freak me out!	Programming & Comp Sci	5
The sixth sick shiek's sixth sheep's sick	General Discussion	1

justsomeguy	"make weapons less available...I don't give two hoots about people that enjoy shooting" gets an "excellent post, thank you" but refutation of that position gets a "lets not make this about guns?" Sorry, but I'm smelling a double standard.

russ_watters Mentor	We should probably always create parallel threads for these sorts of things: one to talk about the incident itself, one to talk about gun control.

jedishrfu	Baltimore Sun article on the Bushmaster: http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opi...,2421497.story Sentiment may be changing. and on I am Adam Lanzas Mom http://healthland.time.com/2012/12/1...-main-mostpop2 These articles should be the ones that frame debate on how to solve this problem.