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Area of an Archimedian spiral 
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#1
Dec1812, 11:55 AM

PF Gold
P: 2,287

1. The problem statement, all variables and given/known data
See the attached link 3. The attempt at a solution I considered each shaded part separately. For the one between ##2\pi ## and ##4\pi##, I set up: $$\int_{2\pi}^{4\pi} ((4\pi +\frac{\pi}{2}) (2\pi + \frac{\pi}{2}) d\theta$$ I used a similar method for the other portions and for each portion, I end up with ##4\pi^2##. This does not seem right because some of the shaded sections look larger than the others. Where is the fault with my method? Thanks! 


#2
Dec1812, 12:52 PM

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I would expect that your integration variable depends on θ in some way. You just integrate over 2 pi (why?).



#3
Dec1812, 01:02 PM

PF Gold
P: 2,287




#4
Dec1812, 01:07 PM

PF Gold
P: 2,287

Area of an Archimedian spiral
I see what I have done wrong. ##\theta## is continually changing so indeed there should be a theta dependence. How do I get the curves that bound each section then?



#5
Dec1812, 01:16 PM

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Thanks
PF Gold
P: 39,363

I think you you integral gives the area between two concentric circles of radii [itex]2\pi+ \pi/4= 9\pi/4[/itex] and [itex]4\pi+ \pi/2= 9\pi/2[/itex].
The two arms of the spiral, at the start where [itex]\theta= 0[/itex], a ray starts at [itex]2\pi[/itex] and ends at [itex]4\pi[/b], but as [itex]\theta[/itex] increases, so does the distance from the origin to those endpoints. On has [itex]r= 2\pi+ \theta[/itex] I confess that at first, I thought you were, in fact, using an integral that would give the distance between two concentric circles, but what you are doing is, basically, correct. At the beginning, [itex]\theta= 0[/itex], the xaxis cuts the first loop of the spiral at [itex]2\pi[/itex] and the second at [itex]4\pi[/itex] so its length is [itex]4\pi 2\pi= 2\pi[/itex]. As [itex]\theta[/itex] increases, a ray crosses the first loop at [itex]2\pi+ \theta[/itex] and the second at [itex]4\pi+ \theta[/itex] but, to my surprise, the difference is still [itex]2\pi[/itex] there is NO [itex]\theta[/itex] dependence. I don't see where your [itex]2\pi[/itex] terms come from. And I certainly cannot imagine why you are multiplying them! Since we make one complete loop around the center, the integral does go from [itex]\theta= 0[/itex] to [itex]2\pi[/itex]. Since area, in polar coordinates, is given by [itex]\int rd\theta[/itex], the area you want here is given by [tex]\int_{\theta= 0}^{2\pi} 2\pi d\theta= 2\pi \int_{\theta= 0}^{2\pi} d\theta[/tex] 


#6
Dec1812, 01:22 PM

PF Gold
P: 2,287

Thanks. 


#7
Dec1812, 02:05 PM

Mentor
P: 11,631

The integral itself does not work. In polar coordinates, area is given by r dr dθ. You can perform the integration over r first (this is a good idea), but the result is not just the difference in radius, due to the additional factor of r inside. You will get expressions with the squared radius.



#8
Dec1812, 02:22 PM

PF Gold
P: 2,287




#9
Dec1812, 02:43 PM

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P: 11,631

You want to calculate an area  it is twodimensional. In a cartesian coordinate system, many problems have a trivial integral in one coordinate  you can simplify the twodimensional integral to one dimension without calculating anything.
In polar coordinates, this can work for θ, but it cannot work for r, as the area element depends on r. The limits for r and θ are fine. 


#10
Dec1812, 02:44 PM

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PF Gold
P: 7,591

The polar area between the origin and ##r = f(\theta)## for ##\theta## between ##\alpha## and ##\beta## is$$
A=\frac 1 2\int_\alpha^\beta f^2(\theta)\, d\theta$$The tricky thing about your problem is some of the area gets repeated as ##\theta## varies. If you let ##\theta## go from ##4\pi## to ##6\pi## you would get all the area that is shaded plus the white center area. Then it looks to me like you could subtract that white area by going from ##2\pi## to ##4\pi##, unless I'm overlooking something. 


#11
Dec1812, 02:53 PM

PF Gold
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#12
Dec1812, 02:59 PM

PF Gold
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#13
Dec1812, 03:04 PM

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PF Gold
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#14
Dec1812, 03:13 PM

PF Gold
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#15
Dec1812, 03:22 PM

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PF Gold
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The spiral from θ = 2π to θ = 4π forms the "inner" boundary of the shaded region. You can do this nicely with an iterated (double) integral in polar coordinates. (I assume we don't want that approach here.) Consider a washer with inner radius, r, and outer radius, R. The area, ΔA, of this washer between θ and θ + Δθ is [itex]\displaystyle \Delta A=(1/2)R^2\Delta\theta(1/2)r^2\Delta\theta[/itex] For the spiral in this problem, let r = θ and R = θ + 2π . Integrate from θ = 2π to 4π . 


#16
Dec1812, 03:24 PM

PF Gold
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#17
Dec1812, 03:40 PM

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If you want to calculate the area under the curve f(x) from a to b, you can express this as $$\int_a^b dx \int_0^{f(x)} 1 dy = \int_a^b dx (f(x)0) dy= \int_a^b f(x) dx$$ which is the usual onedimensional integral. "1" comes from the cartesian coordinate system. It allows to perform the inner integral without writing it down, as it is simply the difference between the upper and lower bound. In polar coordinates, you cannot do this with the integral over r. $$\int_{2\pi}^{4\pi} d\theta \int_\theta^{\theta+2\pi} r dr = \int_{2\pi}^{4\pi} \frac{1}{2}\left((\theta+2\pi)^2  \theta^2\right)d\theta = \int_{2\pi}^{4\pi} (2\pi\theta+2\pi^2)d\theta = 4\pi^3 + 2 \pi (16\pi^2  2\pi^2) = 32\pi^3$$ Hmm, looks quite big. Maybe I made an error somewhere. 


#18
Dec1812, 05:44 PM

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Do you really want to see it? 


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