Sick freak kills first-graders

nsaspook

NEWTOWN, Conn. – The gunman who slaughtered 20 children and six adults at a Connecticut elementary school may have snapped because his mother was planning to commit him to a psychiatric facility, according to a lifelong resident of the area who was familiar with the killer’s family and several of the victims’ families.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/18...#ixzz2FSZQnUvC

Mentalist

Quote by IMP

At least some people are thinking about this logically:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/...3Rpb25z;_ylv=3

That is logical thinking? It does not have logical basis, so I don't get how you can assert that it is logical for teachers to carry guns. That seems more like a mess than something that would avert crisis.

Reading some of the comments made it ever more laughable. "Well trained"

Just because you're well trained with a gun does not mean you are well trained under such situations liken to what happened in Aurora, Colorado or Newtown. In addition, here is a scenario:

Violence breaks, gun shots heard, perpetuator runs into the gym, whilst one teacher standing over kids on the ground. A math teacher runs out with his gun, assumes the other teacher has snapped, and begins shooting. Now all the teachers are shooting whilst the perpetuator is in the gymnasium slaughtering more people.

In other words, these teachers are trained to be teachers not police officers or swat team members. Their emotional stability and awareness in such situations is just the emotional knee-jerk reaction any common-day person would have. Bad idea, and I would never allow my children to go to a school with teachers carrying guns (if I had kids).

How about paying more taxes for police or security personnel? How about more safety precautions in case incidents like these happen?

Drakkith

Quote by Mentalist

That is logical thinking? It does not have logical basis, so I don't get how you can assert that it is logical for teachers to carry guns. That seems more like a mess than something that would avert crisis.

Careful, logic is not set in stone, it is very much dependent on what a person thinks should be done and how.

Just because you're well trained with a gun does not mean you are well trained under such situations liken to what happened in Aurora, Colorado or Newtown. In addition, here is a scenario:

Violence breaks, gun shots heard, perpetuator runs into the gym, whilst one teacher standing over kids on the ground. A math teacher runs out with his gun, assumes the other teacher has snapped, and begins shooting. Now all the teachers are shooting whilst the perpetuator is in the gymnasium slaughtering more people.

You bring up a valid point. Allowing teachers to carry guns is not guaranteed to actually be any safer. Would more people end up injured or killed due to accidental discharges or shootings? Will there be teachers who threaten students at gunpoint when they get get out of line because they don't know how else to handle them? I'm sure there are plenty of others.

In other words, these teachers are trained to be teachers not police officers or swat team members. Their emotional stability and awareness in such situations is just the emotional knee-jerk reaction any common-day person would have. Bad idea, and I would never allow my children to go to a school with teachers carrying guns (if I had kids).

I think you may underestimate their ability to handle the situation, but I do agree that there are likely to be "friendly fire" situations pop up.

How about paying more taxes for police or security personnel? How about more safety precautions in case incidents like these happen?

How about realizing this is an extremely unlikely incident and not wasting the money? I believe the other thread on this incident ballparked an estimate for replacing the doors in schools with bulletproof ones at like 2 billions dollars or something. And I think that's just the door cost! Labor costs would probably be at least as much if not more. (I've seen some of these installed. They aren't always easy)

Plus you not only have to figure out what would be effective, but also whether you want your children to go to school everyday and deal with whatever new safeguards are put in place. I say this because some people advocate checkpoints and other things that would make schools more like prisons...or airports.

It's very easy to fall into the "my/our children's lives are worth any price" realm. It's much more difficult to take a step back and look at the bigger picture and figure out what works and is also feasible compared to what is just a waste of time and money.

enosis_

One of my associates grew up in the Newtown area. Her niece attends the middle school and was in class when it happened. She confirmed it's a very small and close community where everyone either knows each other or are related and every family is affected. I asked if her sister planned to relocate out of the area and was surprised by the response. She said if this could happen in Newtown, where could they go that would be safer?

I had no response.

nsaspook

Quote by enosis_

She said if this could happen in Newtown, where could they go that would be safer?

I had no response.

Big city schools with real police and physical security measures.
http://www.laspd.com/about.html

Astronuc

Quote by Reuters on Yahoo

The family of Principal Dawn Hochsprung invited mourners to visit at a local funeral home on Wednesday afternoon, though the burial was due to be private at an undisclosed time.

Another of the teachers, Victoria Soto, was among those to be buried at a funeral on Wednesday.

Funerals were also scheduled for 6-year-old Charlotte Bacon, 7-year-old Daniel Barden and 6-year-old Caroline Previdi, while the family of 7-year-old Chase Kowalski invited mourners to a public visitation and prayer vigil.

The surviving children from Sandy Hook Elementary faced another day at home as school authorities and parents made plans for an eventual return to a different location - the unused Chalk Hill School in nearby Monroe, where a sign across the street read, "Welcome Sandy Hook Elementary!"

. . . .

http://news.yahoo.com/schools-reopen...002828916.html

jedishrfu

A possible motive for the rampage came out in the Huff Post article today. They believe his mother was in the process of committing him and that he became angry when he found out.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...ef=mostpopular

Astronuc

Letter from John to his best friend Jack Pinto.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/...191902176.html

gravenewworld

Thomas Jefferson on The Constitution:

"I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions, but laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors."

BobG

Quote by gravenewworld

Thomas Jefferson on The Constitution:

"I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions, but laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors."

This must be part of the reason Texas doesn't like including Thomas Jefferson in their curriculum. (But it is important for Texas school children to learn about the NRA.)

nsaspook

Demonize the entire state of Texas over some idiot like Barton? That's important to the topic.

Astronuc

Quote by WABC-TV Ch 7

James Mattioli especially loved recess and math, and his family described him as a "numbers guy" who came up with insights beyond his years to explain the relationship between numbers. He particularly loved the concept of googolplex, which a friend taught him. He was born four weeks before his due date, and his family often joked that he came into the world early because he was hungry. They wrote in his obituary that 6-year-old James, fondly called 'J,' loved hamburgers with ketchup, his Dad's omelets with bacon and his Mom's French toast. He often asked to stop at Subway and wanted to know how old he needed to be to order a footlong sandwich. He loved sports and wore shorts and T-shirts no matter the weather. He was a loud and enthusiastic singer and once asked, "How old do I have to be to sing on a stage?" His family recalled that he was an early-riser who was always ready to get up and go. He and his older sister were the best of friend. He was a thoughtful and considerate child, recently choosing to forgo a gift for himself and use the money to buy his grandfather a mug for Christmas.

Profiles of the Newtown shooting victims
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?se...rbs&id=8921731

turbo

Too sweet.

Astronuc

At least nine funerals and wakes were held Wednesday . . . .

On Thursday, five funerals and six wakes were planned, and more tributes were scheduled for Friday and Saturday.

"The first few days, all you heard were helicopters," said Dr. Joseph Young, an optometrist who attended one funeral and would go to several more. "Now at my office all I hear is the rumble of motorcycle escorts and funeral processions going back and forth throughout the day."

. . . .

http://news.yahoo.com/funerals-becom...084830536.html

skeptic2

Quote by jedishrfu

A possible motive for the rampage came out in the Huff Post article today. They believe his mother was in the process of committing him and that he became angry when he found out.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...ef=mostpopular

In the article is says, "It's unclear whether Adam's mother, Nancy Lanza, was really filing the paperwork, because court officials say that such records are sealed."

Why do such records remain sealed once a person is dead?

mheslep

Quote by SixNein

There is already an estimated 300 million guns in circulation. In a basic nutshell, the realistic answer is that making weapons less available is not an option.

We can however control the situation with bullets.

Australia's gun buyback appears to have gathered 20% (600K) of the existing weapons.
http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/australia

mheslep

Quote by BobG

This must be part of the reason Texas doesn't like including Thomas Jefferson in their curriculum. (But it is important for Texas school children to learn about the NRA.)

That's a gross over generalization, not supported by that NYT link, which specifies in respect to Jefferson only a list of writers who inspired subsequent revolutions.

Edit:
Written in response to some earlier NYT reporting on the Tx SBE:

Quote by Gail Lowe, Chair of Texas State Board of Education

To say the State Board of Education has excluded Thomas Jefferson from the curriculum framework is irresponsible and untruthful.

Jefferson not only penned the words of the Declaration of Independence, served as the third President of the United States and was father of the University of Virginia, but his promotion of the ideals of states’ rights and a limited federal government have permeated our nation for centuries. No study of American history would be complete without his inclusion.

http://www.texasinsider.org/poor-rep...ies-standards/

Which does not sound like words of someone that would justify the NYT's claim about Jefferson, that he is "not well liked among conservatives on the board ..."

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jedishrfu	A possible motive for the rampage came out in the Huff Post article today. They believe his mother was in the process of committing him and that he became angry when he found out. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...ef=mostpopular

Astronuc Admin	Letter from John to his best friend Jack Pinto. http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/...191902176.html

nsaspook	Demonize the entire state of Texas over some idiot like Barton? That's important to the topic.