Gravity & Electric Force: Common Ground?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the potential commonalities between gravitational and electric forces, examining theoretical frameworks and concepts in physics that might unify these forces. Participants touch on various theories, including string theory and Kaluza-Klein theory, while expressing their thoughts on the nature of forces and dimensions in physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that gravitational and electric forces may share a fundamental origin, suggesting that both could be aspects of the same underlying phenomenon.
  • One participant mentions the work of theoretical physicists on string theory and loop quantum gravity (LQG) as relevant to this inquiry.
  • Another participant raises a question about the virtual Z0 boson, pondering why it is the only massive fundamental particle without charge, and expresses frustration over this uncertainty.
  • A participant introduces the idea of gauge invariance as a commonality between electromagnetism and gravity.
  • One viewpoint suggests that all forces arise from a stretched spacetime, with differences in charge being represented by curvature in this spacetime.
  • There is a mention of Kaluza-Klein theory, which is proposed as a framework that might incorporate electromagnetism into a higher-dimensional spacetime context.
  • Concerns are raised about the interpretation of personal ideas as immutable facts, highlighting the subjective nature of some contributions.
  • Another participant expresses skepticism about the implications of extra dimensions, questioning their meaning and relevance to the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the relationship between gravitational and electric forces, with no consensus reached. Some ideas are contested, and various theoretical frameworks are discussed without agreement on their validity or implications.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of the theories discussed, including the assumptions and definitions that may influence their interpretations. The discussion includes speculative ideas about extra dimensions and their potential roles in unifying forces.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in theoretical physics, particularly those exploring the unification of forces, gauge theories, and higher-dimensional models, may find this discussion relevant.

nishant
Messages
95
Reaction score
0
isn't it possible for the gravitational force and the elcetrical origin forces have something very very common fundamentally to both of them
 
Physics news on Phys.org
is there an answer
 
Yes as far as I know. Isn't that what theoretical physicists are working on now with string theory and LQG?
 
I do not know all that,but what should be an indication is the type of forces the both r,their nature is implied from some same thing
 
The ultimate aim of elementary physics is to show that all forces, not just gravity and EM, are aspects of the same thing. A variation on your question is something that has been on my mind of late. Is the virtual Z0 boson the only massive fundamental particle that has no charge? All massless particles are chargeless, and to my knowledge all real massive particles are charged. Why? WHY, GODDAMMIT?!?
 
that irritating feeling!
 
Yes,electromagnetism & gravity have something fundamental in common:gauge invariance,put otherwise:both are I-st class systems.

Daniel.
 
El Hombre Invisible said:
The ultimate aim of elementary physics is to show that all forces, not just gravity and EM, are aspects of the same thing. A variation on your question is something that has been on my mind of late. Is the virtual Z0 boson the only massive fundamental particle that has no charge? All massless particles are chargeless, and to my knowledge all real massive particles are charged. Why? WHY, GODDAMMIT?!?

All forces are really have a COMMON origin. This is a stretched spacetime. It arise between curved areas of spaceime which are a mass.
The difference between charged and not charged mass in a form of curvature only.

Michael
 
can u explain a little further what u r saying
 
  • #10
Maybe he is speaking about Kaluza-Klein theory ?? I don't know that theory at all just it is giving the curvature of a 5 dim space-time (don't ask me if the 5th dimension is time or space, or maybe something else) which should in some way i never looked at include the EM maxwell equations in addition to GR...
 
  • #11
kleinwolf said:
Maybe he is speaking about Kaluza-Klein theory ?? I don't know that theory at all just it is giving the curvature of a 5 dim space-time (don't ask me if the 5th dimension is time or space, or maybe something else) which should in some way i never looked at include the EM maxwell equations in addition to GR...
This is my own ideas.
 
  • #12
how do u say that?
 
  • #13
Michael Dmitriyev said:
This is my own ideas.

Is it perhaps not the greatest idea to express one's own ideas as though they were immutable statements of fact?
 
  • #14
Personally I don't know KK theory, except I think it adds an extra 5 space-dimension which is extended.

Well...my problem with extra-dimensional space-time is that if I can accept 4D space-time as a mathematical interesting tool it's because I have the impression of 3D space, and some time flowing but of different nature than space (irreversible, aso...)

But what would be an extra space dimension ? Or time either ?

However, I have no argument against extra "degenerate" dimensions...

This is based on the mathematical fact that let say flat space-time can be described by a metric, which can be always put in the form :

[tex]M=diag(1,-1,-1,-1,0,0,0...)[/tex]

e.g. 1->time, -1->space 0->?

But I have no idea what these degenerate dimensions could help...or what they mean
 

Similar threads

Undergrad Is Gravity a Force or Curvature?
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
6K
Undergrad Gravity at large scales: force hierarchy or charge cancellation?
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
606
Graduate MOND from SU(2) gravitational dipoles
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
Undergrad Mond - gravity as two separate forces?
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
4K
Undergrad What Explains the Odd Behavior of the Four Fundamental Forces?
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
3K
Undergrad Is gravity action at a distance or is it a local force?
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
3K
Undergrad On the Quantum Mechanics of Entropic Forces
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
Undergrad Can Core Theory Be Derived From Nine Lines?
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
Graduate Consequences of unifying Gravity with the other forces?
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Undergrad Gravitons and General Relativity
  • · Replies 37 ·
2
Replies
37
Views
7K