Special relativity: local frames versus global frame in a loop scenario

In summary, a series of pulses of radio signal is continuously relayed around the world along the equator, with a fixed number of pulses at 648,000 and evenly spaced. This is due to the fact that the Earth's rotation causes the co-propagating series to have a wider spacing and the counter-propagating series to have a smaller spacing. This is known as the Sagnac effect and is similar to a ring laser interferometer setup. When evaluating the loop as a whole, the clocks are not synchronized in the same way as when evaluating a section of the loop, resulting in a different measurement of the speed of light relative to the relay stations. Closing the loop allows for the same synchronization and comparison of clocks,
  • #1
Cleonis
Gold Member
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Take the following setup:
A series of pulses of radio signal is relayed around the world, along the equator. There is no "gap", it is a continuous loop along numerous relay stations build along the equator. The total number of pulses is fixed at 648,000 - I'll explain in a minute why that number. The spacing between the pulses is continuously monitored and if necessary adjusted, so that there is an even spacing.

To keep the numbers relatively simple I take a day of 86400 seconds (a solar day), I take the Earth circumference as 40,000,000 kilometer, and I take the speed of electromagnetic waves as 300,000 km/s

An electromagnetic wave travels around the equator in 0.1333333... seconds
During that 0.133333... second time interval the relay stations on the equator have traveled 61.7 meter, as they are co-rotating with the Earth. That 61.7 meter distance is 1/648,000th of the Earth's circumference.

Let two series of pulses be circumnavigating: one in the direction of the Earth's rotation, the other counter to it. If the Earth would be non-rotating then the two counterpropagating series will have the same spacing.
Since the Earth is rotating the co-propagating series of pulses will have a somewhat wider spacing 684,001/684,000 larger than in the non-rotating case. Similarly, the counter-propagating series will be spaced 683,999/684,000 smaller.

The above effect is an instance of the Sagnac effect. In particular, the above case is analogous to a Ring Laser Interferometer setup. The reason that the Sagnac effect occurs is the fact that electromagnetic waves propagate at a particular velocity. In a Sagnac setup the speed of light serves as a reference.

If you evaluate the loop as a whole then clearly the relay stations have a velocity relative to the reference created by the counterpropagating EM-waves. That's because the setup involves a closed loop.

Here is what I think is an interesting question:
If you evaluate just a section of the loop (in other words, if measurements are confined to a local frame) then what propagation speed of EM-waves relative to the relay stations will you find?

The answer:
- If you confine measurements to a local frame, then the clocks in that frame must be synchronized using emissions from within that local frame only. Given that clock synchronization you will find a lightspeed of c in both directions.
- The global frame, evaluating the loop as a whole, does not have the same clock synchronization as the local frame. For the global frame a global time applies. If you use that global clock synchronization you find that light does not have velocity c relative to the relay stations.


This is why I called this thread 'Local frames versus global frame'.
If the setup involves a loop, and information flowing along the loop is evaluated, then global clock synchronization is different from clock synchronization along sub-sections.
 
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  • #2
Can I ask you is there some kind of point you wish to make?

Remember that speed of light is locally always c.
 
  • #3
Passionflower said:
Remember that speed of light is locally always c.

More generally, as long as the string of relay stations does not close a loop then the synchronization procedure that is used makes the speed of light come out as c over the entire length.

When the loop is closed, that is, when information travels in a loop topology, then the Einstein synchronization procedure does not apply.

Alternatively, you can disseminate time by traveling with clocks in opposite directions along the equator.

Generally, the weirdness of special relativity comes into focus when a loop is closed. The twin scenario is a loop scenario. At the instant that the siblings who have traveled along different worldlines exchange information again the relativistic effect becomes observable.
 
  • #4
Cleonis said:
Generally, the weirdness of special relativity comes into focus when a loop is closed. The twin scenario is a loop scenario. At the instant that the siblings who have traveled along different worldlines exchange information again the relativistic effect becomes observable.

"Closing the loop" allows for:

Mathenatically: the two integrals calculating proper time to have the same limits.
Physically: the two twins get to be side by side when they split (so they can synchronize their clocks) and be again together at the end of the journey (such they can compare their clocks, exactly as in the Haefele-Keating experiment).
 

1. What is the difference between a local frame and a global frame in special relativity?

A local frame in special relativity refers to a frame of reference that is moving at a constant velocity relative to an observer. In contrast, a global frame refers to a frame of reference that is at rest relative to the entire system. This distinction is important in understanding the effects of relativity on objects moving at different speeds.

2. How does special relativity affect objects in a loop scenario?

In a loop scenario, objects moving at high speeds will experience time dilation and length contraction, as predicted by special relativity. This means that time will pass slower and distances will appear shorter for these objects when viewed from a stationary frame of reference.

3. What is the significance of the speed of light in special relativity?

The speed of light is a fundamental constant in special relativity and is the maximum speed at which any object can travel. It is the same in all frames of reference and is a crucial component in the equations of special relativity.

4. Can special relativity be applied to objects in non-inertial frames of reference?

Special relativity is only applicable to objects in inertial frames of reference, where there is no acceleration. In non-inertial frames, such as those experiencing circular motion, the laws of special relativity do not hold and must be modified to include the effects of acceleration.

5. How does the concept of frames of reference relate to the theory of special relativity?

The theory of special relativity is based on the idea of frames of reference, which are used to describe the relative motion of objects. It states that the laws of physics should be the same in all inertial frames of reference, and that the speed of light is constant in all frames. Frames of reference are essential in understanding the effects of relativity on objects moving at different speeds.

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