What is the Muslim response to extremist ideology?

[studentx]

http://www.freemuslims.org/news/article.php?article=148

"Will Muslims wake up before it is too late? Or will we continue blaming the Jews and an imaginary Jewish conspiracy? The blaming of all Muslim problems on Jews is a cancer that is destroying Muslim society from within and it must stop.

...We should not be afraid to admit that as Muslims we have a problem with violent extremism. What will it take for Muslims to realize that we are facing a crisis that is more deadly than the Aids epidemic? What will it take for Muslims to realize that there is a large evil movement that is turning what was a peaceful religion into a cult?

...As to apologizing, we will no longer wait for our religious leaders and “intellectuals” to do the right thing."

 

[member 5645]

That is nice of them, but I don't think many people are looking for an apology, as we differentiate individuals, for the most part.
What we are looking for is a condemnation of of acts done under the cloak of "Islam" so that we can know our enemy, and know our friends. I do not look to attack Muslims, but if Muslims wish to group themselves together, as they do, then they need to fully and loudly condemn those that tarnish their name.

 

[Adam]

Nice for Kamal to apologise. I wonder what every other Muslim in the world feels about this American presuming to associate them with terrorism.

 

[Smurf]

Surely those muslims living in the west are very annoyed or distraught with the criticism they are taking recently. I know I would be. I don't think "Muslims we have a problem with violent extremism", not that the middle east doesnt, but the word muslims is questionable, muslims in other parts of the world do not do this so obviously there is another force in the middle east making them prone to this kind of action, And I don't think its the Jews.

 

[studentx]

That is nice of them, but I don't think many people are looking for an apology, as we differentiate individuals, for the most part.
What we are looking for is a condemnation of of acts done under the cloak of "Islam" so that we can know our enemy, and know our friends. I do not look to attack Muslims, but if Muslims wish to group themselves together, as they do, then they need to fully and loudly condemn those that tarnish their name.

Thats kinda what the articles says. Not just to condemn or assist in the war on terror, but for muslims to take the lead.

 

[kat]

Surely those muslims living in the west are very annoyed or distraught with the criticism they are taking recently. I know I would be. I don't think "Muslims we have a problem with violent extremism", not that the middle east doesnt, but the word muslims is questionable, muslims in other parts of the world do not do this so obviously there is another force in the middle east making them prone to this kind of action, And I don't think its the Jews.

Erm..there are muslim (Islamist) extremist all over the world. It's not limited to Arab or middle eastern Muslims...Spanish Islamic Extremist, Phillipino Islamic Extremist...India's Islamic Extremist..Africa's Islamic Extremist etc. Etc.

 

[Smurf]

I havn't researched the matter fully, do you have any resources on the matter, I was under the impression that main focus of islamism extremism was in the middle east. Are they violent everywhere?

 

[kat]

I havn't researched the matter fully, do you have any resources on the matter, I was under the impression that main focus of islamism extremism was in the middle east. Are they violent everywhere?

There are resources, just do a search...
I don't think you can say that "they" are violent everywhere. Who is the "they"? Obviously not Islamist as we have islamist who appear to be not violent and apologetic for those that are...right here in the beginning of this thread. So, no I don't think "they" are all violent. I think there is a sect of islamism that is violent, extremist and unapologetic for it's belief that anything other then their strict version of islamism is an abomination that should be destroyed. Unfortunately this sect is growing, in part due to the funding of schools and other manners of indoctrination by ..mmmm, Saudi nationals for one..not sure from what other sources.
I'm glad to see a public apology and denuncation from this group. Not because I think peaceful muslims need to apologize for violent muslim sects but because there is a need to break the code of "brotherhood" that exists in the Islamic world in order to route out the violent muslim sects from the peaceful muslim sects and make a public differentation. Perhaps with a more vocal "peaceful" islamic nation condemning the violent Islamic nation it will discourage younger members from heading towards the road to violent fundamentalism.
I think most members of any group would/should feel a responsibility to denounce the bad behavior of others who claim to belong to their group. Otherwise, you are silently acknowledging some sort of agreement or acceptance of your members behavior.

 

[member 5645]

Thats kinda what the articles says. Not just to condemn or assist in the war on terror, but for muslims to take the lead.

errr, I do need to read better, but I don't want Muslims thinking they owe us anything. I appreciate such empathy, it's nice to see that.
However, I think it's sick when people here think that as a white male, I should feel I owe black Americans something. I don't.
As such, acts carried out in the name of Islam don't require an apology, and I hope muslims will realize that Americans (atleast none that I know) want to make them feel bad for who they are. It seems this group really feels they have done something wrong.

However, THIS http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,124763,00.html brought a tear to my eye!

 

[Adam]

Phatmonky, thanks for finally posting something both interesting and informative. That's a nice story.

 

[member 5645]

Phatmonky, thanks for finally posting something both interesting and informative. That's a nice story.

There's no need for the 'finally', Adam.

 

[russ_watters]

I havn't researched the matter fully, do you have any resources on the matter, I was under the impression that main focus of islamism extremism was in the middle east. Are they violent everywhere?

Have you seen what the Chechens have done in Russia in the past few weeks?

Its disturbing to me that a high percentage of the terrorism going on in the world (it appears) is perpetrated by people calling themselves "muslims." That's a big, big problem. When other muslims don't step up to condemn it, or better yet, fight against it, it gives the appearance that there is something wrong with the religion.

 

[russ_watters]

errr, I do need to read better, but I don't want Muslims thinking they owe us anything. I appreciate such empathy, it's nice to see that.

An apology isn't what we need, but its a start - it shows at least some are thinking about the problem and want to do something about it.

 

[JohnDubYa]

Radical Islam has been responsible for a lot of terrorism in Indonesia as well. The Islamic terrorist group Abu Sayyaf operates in the Phillippines.

Here is an excerpt from a report on African Islamic terrorism:

Terrorism in the Horn of Africa

Summary

For over a decade, the United States has considered the Horn of Africa—Kenya, Ethiopia, Djibouti, Somalia, Eritrea, and Sudan—a major source of terrorism. Following the 9-11 attacks against the United States, the Horn has come under increased scrutiny as a strategic focal point in the war against terrorism.

* In May 2003, the Kenyan government admitted that a key member of the al Qaeda terror network was plotting an attack on western targets, confirming al Qaeda's firm local presence.

* Ethiopian Muslims have not been receptive to Islamic fundamentalism and they lack centralized power. They tend to identify first with their ethnic kin. Muslims and Christians are geographically intermixed throughout most of the country. Islam in Ethiopia has been benign during the past century. But the potential for conflict is present.

* Djibouti's importance to terrorists derives from its transit capabilities rather than its potential as a base for international terrorist organizations. Events since 1999, however, may have increased Djibouti's attractiveness to international terrorists.

* Somalia has played a role in Islamist terrorism, albeit a specialized one. It has served primarily as a short-term transit point for movement of men and materiel through the porous and corrupt border between Somalia into Kenya, which has been a preferred site of terrorist attacks.

* Eritrea's inclusion in the "coalition of the willing" threatens to widen the gap between moderate and radical Eritrean Muslims due to the regime's use of the "war against terrorism" to eliminate all dissent.

* The government of Sudan stands at a crossroads. It is attempting to move in a new direction through serious peace negotiations with the Sudan People's Liberation Army (SPLA) and improved relations with the United States, but those efforts are being hindered by high-ranking officials who remain committed to the radical Islamist agenda.

* An effective U.S. response to terrorist threats in the Horn of Africa must include increased and targeted foreign aid, improved regional intelligence capabilities, and increased pressure on exogenous forces (especially Saudi Arabia) that stoke the flames of radicalism through Muslim "charities" and religious training programs.

 

[studentx]

When other muslims don't step up to condemn it, or better yet, fight against it, it gives the appearance that there is something wrong with the religion.

When muslims don't step up to fight this growing wave of extremism , then there IS something wrong with the religion, or at least their interpretation of it. Islam isn't a religion you practice like christianity by going to church once a week. Its a lifestyle and culture which encompasses everything on a daily basis. If you try to change a muslims lifestyle, you opress Islam. There can be no compromises and because of the freedom of religion in most countries, you will be wrong. Our laws arent from God, every "openminded" westerner with just a tad of empathy will emplore that gods laws supercede ours. Its the Muslims full right not to compromise!

Take the banning of headscarves in France for example. Its an evil against Islam. So is the kidnapping of journalists. Unfortunately when one is perpetrated by infidels guilty of crimes against Islam, and not being perpetrated to benefit Islam, and the other is perpetrated by your brothers, with the purpose to benefit Islam, the two evils make for a very complicated debate, which in all other religions wouldn't even take place. Can you tell me, which is regarded the bigger evil by muslims around the world; the banning of headscarves, or the kidnapping and beheading of westerners?

 

[Mercator]

True, but then, how long did it take before the inquisition stopped? How many witches have been burned before good sense took over? I think it is a general problem with religion. But yes, right now Islamic religion is spreading sorrow over the world.

 

[studentx]

Could be a problem with religion in general, you can tell we worship the same god.
Christianity has reformed many times tho, and Islam has always had huge problems with reforming (cuz their book comes directly from god and is "for all times"). I hope they reform, just not after they run out witches and destroy the new native americans. Thats not really an option this time.

 

[Gokul43201]

I've been expecting one of these threads to raise the issue of the Crusades.

Islam is about a millenium newer than Christianity, and so is probably in an earlier (probably, way earlier) evolutionary stage. Perhaps this is their Crusade. Also, Islam doesn't offer a whole lot of scope for change, and more often than not, countries with an Islamic majority are non-secular, protectionist and don't see the need for globalization because they get all the money they need from oil. The few Islamic states that rely significantly on tourism (eg: UAE, Bahrain) are far more progressive than the others.

I'm sure there's more to it than just that their Book comes directly from God. The Bible too claims to accurately convey the word of God, and claims to be for all times. There seems to be something more deep-rooted in Islam that makes it so resistant to change...and it is not a matter of flexibility in interpretation. There's enough and more flex-room in the Qura'an, though only a non-Muslim will attest to that publicly.

 

[kat]

Uhh...maybe I'm misunderstanding here (I've a horrible head cold) but it seems an odd statement to say that this might be the islamic crusades when the crusades were very much a christian/islamic event...

 

[Gokul43201]

I'm referring the Inquisition, I guess - to the early second millenium when the Church decided to eradicate heretical and pagan movements that opposed it. I'm talking about the genocide of the Cathars and their sympathisers - the massacre of the Languedocians and other such killings.

In one case, when the Pope (Innocent ?) was told that it was difficult to identify the small number of heretics (a few hundreds) from the large number of people (tens of thousands) that provided them refuge, the Pope is claimed to have said "Kill them all. God will know his own."

I'm referring to this kind of mentality among the power-holders within the religion.

 

[LURCH]

"An odd statement" doesn't cover the half of it! However, this comparison is one that has been on my mind a lot lately. First, let me say that Chritianity (true Christianity) is in fact, a way of life, and not something that can take place one day a week.

That being said, I will also point out that the Crusades were carried out by a groupe referring to themselves as "the Church", by people calling themselves Christians, and in the name of Christ, but were definitely not, in any way, Christian. So, I wonder if the people doing these attrocious acts are as Muslim as the crusaders were Christian. No "religious" motivation at all; just a political agenda that has found a convenient motivating factor in the form of a pre-existing religion for which people are willing to die (or kill), and then tell these people the lie that this is how to please their diety.

True Christianity opposes any activity even remotely ressembling the Crusades, so I suspect that true Islam condems terrorism, as well.

 

[Adam]

That being said, I will also point out that the Crusades were carried out by a groupe referring to themselves as "the Church", by people calling themselves Christians, and in the name of Christ, but were definitely not, in any way, Christian.

The Pope isn't a Christian? So... he's not the one who decides what christianity is, but you are?

 

[Entropy]

The Pope isn't a Christian? So... he's not the one who decides what christianity is, but you are?

In his opinion, yes. Just like I think other sects of Christianity besides my own aren't "true Christians" and other probably think the same about me.

Besides, his point was that the teachings of Christ defines what a Christian is "the Chruch" was so obviously contradictory to the teachings of Christ, it can be concluded that the Chruch was not Christian.

 

[LURCH]

The Pope isn't a Christian? So... he's not the one who decides what christianity is, but you are?

No; Christ is.

 

[russ_watters]

While I can see a parallel (or perhaps mirror) between the Crusades and today's radical islam, there are two important differences: the Crusades were pretty much mainstream Christianity (or is anyone arguing that Islamic terrorism is mainstream Islam...?), but the people who fought them were not really all that religiously motivated.

 

[Adam]

No; Christ is.

And no christian's opinion is relevant at all when it comes to "What is christianity?"...?