Naturality/commutativity of Mayer-Vietoris giving wrong answer?

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In summary, the conversation discusses an argument for the fact that the degree of a reflection map on the n-sphere is -1. The argument uses the naturality of the Mayer-Vietoris sequence and commutative diagrams, but it does not work for the antipodal map. The correct degrees for both maps are obtained by considering the CW-triad of the n-sphere and using chain complexes. The explanation for why the argument does not work for the antipodal map involves a failure of commutativity and the need for certain conditions on the map. The solution presented is simpler and avoids the need for explicit calculation of the degree on the 1-sphere, but it highlights the importance of considering minus signs in the calculation.
  • #1
nonequilibrium
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2
Hello,

I came across an argument for the fact that the degree of the map [itex]R_n[/itex] which reflects the n-sphere through a plane is -1. It goes as follows:

Describe [itex]S^n[/itex] as two disks whose overlap is [itex]S^{n-1}[/itex] (in such a way that [itex]R_n[/itex] restricted to this overlap is [itex]R_{n-1}[/itex])
Then due to naturality of the Mayer-Vietoris sequence, the following commutes:

[itex]\begin{array}{ccc}
H_n(S^n) &\to^\cong &H_{n-1}(S^{n-1}) \\
\downarrow R & & \downarrow R \\
H_n(S^n) &\to^\cong &H_{n-1}(S^{n-1})
\end{array}[/itex]

Hence deg(R) is independent of the dimension n (and then we calculate deg(R) = -1 for [itex]S^1[/itex]).

However: what if instead of the reflection [itex]R[/itex] we had used the inversion [itex]\pi[/itex]? Every piece of the argument goes through (what would change?) but the conclusion would be wrong! (The degree of reflection depends on n, i.e. [itex]\deg \pi = (-1)^{n+1}[/itex].)

What is going wrong? Thanks! (and merry christmas)
 
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  • #2
The argument gives the correct value for the degree of a reflection, and further, the degree of the antipodal map is indeed (-1)n+1. This can easily be seen by noting that the antipodal map on the n-sphere is a composition of n+1 reflections, and therefore, has degree (-1)n+1. I have not checked why the argument above does not go through for the antipodal map, but I imagine it has something to do with a failure of commutativity. There are some conditions that need to hold on your map f:Sn→Sn in order to get commutativity of the relevant diagram.
 
  • #3
I have not checked why the argument above does not go through for the antipodal map, but I imagine it has something to do with a failure of commutativity. There are some conditions that need to hold on your map f:Sn→Sn in order to get commutativity of the relevant diagram.

That is why I made this thread though: I can't find the condition that is not satisfied.
 
  • #4
No guarantees on correctness here! Let X denote the n-sphere and consider the CW-triad (X,A,B) where A = {(x1,...,xn+1) | xn+1 ≥ 0} and B = {(x1,...,xn+1) | xn+1 ≤ 0} are n-cells whose common boundary is the (n-1)-sphere. Let f:X→X denote the reflection f(x1,...,xn+1) = (x1,...,-xn+1) and let g:X→X denote the antipodal map. It then follows that f(A) = g(A) = B and f(B) = g(B) = A. The idea is to compute the degrees of f and g using the Mayer-Vietoris sequence associated to the triad (X,A,B). Towards this end note there are two possible boundary maps ±∂:Hn(X)→Hn-1(A∩B) arising from the two natural short exact sequences 0→C(A∩B)→C(A)⊕C(B)→C(X)→0. The pushforwards f#:C(X)→C(X) and g#:C(X)→C(X) on chain complexes take the first of these short-exact sequences to the other. As a result we get the following two commutative diagrams:
[tex]
\require{AMScd}
\begin{CD}
H_n(X) @>∂>> H_{n-1}(A \cap B)\\
@Vf_*VV @V\mathrm{id}_*VV\\
H_n(X) @>-∂>> H_{n-1}(A \cap B)
\end{CD}
\hspace{20mm}
\begin{CD}
H_n(X) @>∂>> H_{n-1}(A \cap B)\\
@Vg_*VV @Vg_*VV\\
H_n(X) @>-∂>> H_{n-1}(A \cap B)
\end{CD}
[/tex]
From here the degrees are easily determined. This argument is a little different than the one outlined in your OP. To be completely honest I am not entirely sure how that calculation goes through. But this new computation works formally and gives the correct result for both the reflection and antipodal maps.
 
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  • #5
That seems to work :)

Your explanation also works for the one in the OP: there the plane of reflection is just chosen different (say [itex]x_1 \to - x_1[/itex]) which has two consequences:

(1) f(A) = A and f(B) = B,
(2) the reflection on [itex]S^{n+1}[/itex] restricts to the identity on the reflection on [itex]S^n[/itex]. (Instead of the identity as in your choice.)

This gives the commutative diagram

[tex]
\require{AMScd}
\begin{CD}
H_n(X) @>∂>> H_{n-1}(A \cap B)\\
@Vf_*VV @V f_*VV\\
H_n(X) @>∂>> H_{n-1}(A \cap B)
\end{CD}
[/tex]

which is the one stated in the OP. If we look at inversion instead of reflection, again f(A) = B and f(B) = A such that on the bottom [itex]\partial \to - \partial[/itex]. This gives all the right results :)

Thanks! (Note your solution is nicer than the one in the OP since there induction was used and the degree for reflection on the 1-sphere had to be calculated explicitly as the base case. But in that case the subtlety of commutativity could be swept under the rug, whereas in your case we are forced to think about the minus signs (which is interesting))
 

1. What is the meaning of naturality in the context of Mayer-Vietoris?

Naturality in the context of Mayer-Vietoris refers to the property of a sequence of homomorphisms to remain unchanged when a certain operation is applied to the objects involved. In other words, the sequence behaves consistently regardless of the specific objects used.

2. How does the commutativity of Mayer-Vietoris affect its properties?

The commutativity of Mayer-Vietoris is an important property that allows for the sequence to be manipulated and simplified in various ways without changing the final outcome. This makes it a valuable tool in algebraic topology and other areas of mathematics.

3. Can the Mayer-Vietoris sequence give a wrong answer?

Yes, the Mayer-Vietoris sequence can give a wrong answer if the underlying assumptions are not satisfied. For example, if the spaces being considered are not sufficiently nice or if the homology groups involved are not finitely generated, the sequence may fail to accurately represent the desired result.

4. What are some common mistakes that can lead to the wrong answer in the Mayer-Vietoris sequence?

One common mistake is not ensuring that the spaces being considered satisfy the necessary conditions for the Mayer-Vietoris sequence to hold. Another mistake is not properly understanding the concept of naturality and how to apply it correctly in the sequence.

5. How can one avoid getting a wrong answer when using the Mayer-Vietoris sequence?

To avoid getting a wrong answer when using the Mayer-Vietoris sequence, it is important to carefully check and verify that all the necessary conditions are met. It is also helpful to have a solid understanding of the concept of naturality and how it applies to the sequence. Additionally, it is always a good idea to double check the calculations and make sure they are correct.

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