Getting a B.S. in Physics was a big mistake aparently.

[ks_physicist]

My problem was believing my advisors and online sources that engineering/comp sci disciplines would be intersted in a physics degree.

Even the AIP, with their employment surveys and published statistics, is supporting this lie.

The problem is that 20 years ago it wasn't a lie. Companies hired physicists to do engineering work (under a PE) and to do programming.

Now, Human Resources departments do the hiring or at least the initial screening, and they will use whatever "logical" filtering system works. So the highly qualified physicist whom the engineering department would love to hire will be filtered out because the degree is not in an engineering discipline from an A.B.E.T. accredited institution.

It sucks, but that's the way it is. I would never advise anyone to earn (just) a bachelor's in physics. Even if they want to do grad school in physics, I would advise at minimum a double-major in physics and engineering or physics and computer science. Then, at least, if they need to take a break or decide grad school in physics isn't for them, they can find decent paying job.

 

[Asphodel]

Now, Human Resources departments do the hiring or at least the initial screening, and they will use whatever "logical" filtering system works. So the highly qualified physicist whom the engineering department would love to hire will be filtered out because the degree is not in an engineering discipline from an A.B.E.T. accredited institution.

Honestly - if you've got an engineering department that would love to hire you, and you let HR filter you out, then you deserve not to get the job. But yes, it's hard coming in "cold" and you need to do much more networking than previously to have good job prospects starting out.

 

[sunil774]

SO Ijackson, where did you get your BS from ?

 

[ks_physicist]

Honestly - if you've got an engineering department that would love to hire you, and you let HR filter you out, then you deserve not to get the job. But yes, it's hard coming in "cold" and you need to do much more networking than previously to have good job prospects starting out.

Yes, yes, networking is necessary, but for those people who find out about a job opening--or even hear through a friend about a job opening--the engineering department will never see the letter, never see the application.

As far as my investigation has been able to tell, this was NOT the case 20 years ago, hence the advice from faculty who were around then does not meet with reality now.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Even the AIP, with their employment surveys and published statistics, is supporting this lie.

Published statistics? The fiends! If they are posting actual data, they must be liars!

I graduated almost 23 years ago in physics from the largest physics undergrad program in the country (I believe). None of us got a job as an engineer. None of us expected to.

Things are different now, that's for sure. The biggest difference I see is in the expectations of students:

(1) Back then, it was simply understood that if you wanted a job as an engineer, you got a degree in engineering. Undergrads in both physics and engineering knew that these were totally different fields.

(2) Back then, there wasn't this idea that it was the function of a university education to get you a job. Universities weren't seen as trade schools.

 

[fizziks]

Published statistics? The fiends! If they are posting actual data, they must be liars!

I graduated almost 23 years ago in physics from the largest physics undergrad program in the country (I believe). None of us got a job as an engineer. None of us expected to.

Things are different now, that's for sure. The biggest difference I see is in the expectations of students:

(1) Back then, it was simply understood that if you wanted a job as an engineer, you got a degree in engineering. Undergrads in both physics and engineering knew that these were totally different fields.

(2) Back then, there wasn't this idea that it was the function of a university education to get you a job. Universities weren't seen as trade schools.

It's still the same today. If you wanted an engineering job, you major in engineering. An auto employer ain't going to hire a physics grad to design a car engine when he/she can hire a mechanical engineer. No matter how likable or interpersonal you were during the interview.

Personality and people skills will never save you from the lack of knowledge.

 

[ks_physicist]

Published statistics? The fiends! If they are posting actual data, they must be liars!

I sent the AIP a few questions, none of which have been answered fully. One of the questions asked was, "Of this sample of students with bachelor's degrees in physics, how many have ONLY the bachelor's degree in physics?"

The idea was that employment statistics for physics bachelor's might not represent the employment potential for PHYSICS bachelor's, if any sizable proportion of the survey respondents were physics/chemistry, physics/engineering, or even physics/math double majors. I do not have my email correspondence in front of me, but I THINK the AIP eventually responded to me with an answer that said that they did not have data on any other degrees the respondents might have.

I graduated almost 23 years ago in physics from the largest physics undergrad program in the country (I believe). None of us got a job as an engineer. None of us expected to.

I can't tell you where the "physicist as engineer" thing was started, then, as I graduated with a bachelor's less than a decade ago. What I can tell you is that I have met physicists working as engineers, I have been told that physicists can work as (staff) engineers, and I see that a handful of companies do still specifically include "physics" as one of the degrees that can qualify for an engineering position. Many companies that are reputed to have hired physicists into engineering disciplines in the past no longer have any regular pathway for physicists to be considered.

 

[ks_physicist]

It's still the same today. If you wanted an engineering job, you major in engineering. An auto employer ain't going to hire a physics grad to design a car engine when he/she can hire a mechanical engineer. No matter how likable or interpersonal you were during the interview.

Personality and people skills will never save you from the lack of knowledge.

Check out the bottom of this graph:

http://www.aip.org/statistics/trends/highlite/emp/figure9.htm

 

[RasslinGod]

physics majors as engineers?

what kind of engineers, who studied physics, did u meet? what was their job? how did they make up for the deficincy of a engineering curricullum?

 

[josh_einsle]

I work as a 'sr applications engineer' for an electron microscope and FIB manufacturer. I currently only have a b.a. in physics. while most of what i do is actually process engineering, meaning understanding stats and process variation, i have learned the majority of that by self taught or classes offered through the company. I also know plenty of other 'engineers' working in the company who have only physics or chem bachelors. Much of what it takes to build up parts of high tech systems is not necessarily engineering in the classic sense anymore. It is more about an ability to understand how different sub-systems work together and how they are actually used by customers (internal or external.).

my 2 cents.

 

[Marie scott]

Just saw your thread...I hope you have a job. If not check the FBI and or CIA both hire physics majors at the BS level. It is the problem solving experience they like. Further, with a physics BS you will understand explosives, ballistics etc. Anyway for all you physics majors don't forget the US government. Remember though you will have to pass a background check so no shenanigans:)
Lastly, the benefits the federal govt provides are second to none. If that is not your cup of tea try the Air Force or Navy they love the BS in Physics too and have lots of stuff for you to do besides fight:) Keep your head up Physics majors you worked your butt off for that degree!
God Bless You and Good Luck

 

[alligatorman]

This thread is so old.

 

[glueball8]

I think to a large extent this has already been done. There are plenty of Universities which offer courses (not just classes) in Engineering Science, applied physics etc. I tend to agree with the OP that even this has yet to change the typical employer's perception of physics in industry, and that they'll much rather hire engineers than physics majors. My guess is that, since a lot of people tell me that a hell lot of theory covered in engineering degrees is completely inapplicable in industry, it'll probably remain this way since there's even more theory in physics than engineering.

I'm considering taking Physics or EngSci(specialize in physics) in University. I like physics a lot more than EngSci but things like this are making me really worried. Specially, in University of Toronto for some reason that they keeps the physics GPA really really low (like the highest is 3.8) so theirs hardly any change to get scholarships or transfer to another school for grad (states). I can switch to physics from EngSci (I think), but I don't really like the courses in Engsci. There's not that much Physics or math, there's a lot of programming, chem, bio... but then 15% of pple who get out of EngSci get the top Grad school in the world. Which should I pick? I don't think there's time to do a double major, 50% of people are kick out after the 1st year. Any Advice?

 

[Physics_NYC]

Try George Washington University's MBA-Physics (Ph.D) joint program for one.

Tell me more about this.

 

[creepypasta13]

I have gotten a few interviews for programmer/analyst positions, and even did an internship in operations research with just a physics BS, but have gotten NO interviews for engineering positions or non-engineering positions at engineering companies

Have you tried looking at some of the govt contractors?

Companies like Lockheed, Northrop, SAIC, General Dynamics, BAE, BAH, Raytheon, etc.

They hire BS physics guys...

I heard that at those large companies, about 90% of the hirings are done by referrals from friends or family. So if you don't know anyone who works there, you're screwed, whether you have a physics or engineering degre

I've also been steadily employed in engineering and R&D positions for 25 years with a BS in Physics. I've been going part time for the past 3 years on an MS degree and am currently only a couple courses and a thesis away from it.

so if I want to go into the aerospace industry and already have a physics BS, how much will getting an MS in ME or AE really help? or am I better off just continuing the job search with just the physics BS?

I've also worked at a mixture of small (~30 employees) to my current large (>100k employees) companies. As another poster mentioned large defence/aerospace companies may be a good place to look. However, I'd suggest to the OP to look at smaller companies, they probably don't show up at your schools employment events - you may have to track them down thru trade publications.

There were far more openings listed in their paper than we had a clue existed. We cold called around on Monday - explained that we were out for a week and they'd better talk to us while they could. We basically filled a week with interview with no trouble. People were very willing to talk if they didn't have to invest in our travel expenses, and they liked our gumption in getting out there to them. We both eventually got several job offers out of that one trip. LA may not be the place to go anymore

I've tried cold calling, by looking up small private companies in the yellow pages, and most private companies have hiring freezes and aren't hiring. I live in LA

Just start calling engineering companies. Tell them you're a graduate and a student, explain your situation, talk directly to a company it can't hurt.

As I said above, it hasn't worked. However, a few of the employers have offered some advice about where to look

 

[lisab]

I have gotten a few interviews for programmer/analyst positions, and even did an internship in operations research with just a physics BS, but have gotten NO interviews for engineering positions or non-engineering positions at engineering companies




I heard that at those large companies, about 90% of the hirings are done by referrals from friends or family. So if you don't know anyone who works there, you're screwed, whether you have a physics or engineering degre



so if I want to go into the aerospace industry and already have a physics BS, how much will getting an MS in ME or AE really help? or am I better off just continuing the job search with just the physics BS?



I've tried cold calling, by looking up small private companies in the yellow pages, and most private companies have hiring freezes and aren't hiring. I live in LA



As I said above, it hasn't worked. However, a few of the employers have offered some advice about where to look

I'd apply to large companies anyway, despite what you've heard about needing to know someone to get in.

Another possibility is signing up for a technical temp agency. This a) gets money in your pocket, b) gives you experience, and c) might get you hired on full-time, because many companies hire that way - they use the temp route to "test drive" applicants.

 

[creepypasta13]

I'd apply to large companies anyway, despite what you've heard about needing to know someone to get in.

Another possibility is signing up for a technical temp agency. This a) gets money in your pocket, b) gives you experience, and c) might get you hired on full-time, because many companies hire that way - they use the temp route to "test drive" applicants.

I think that at this point I feel so hopeless about getting an engineering position or internship that I'll just accept an offer for a programming/analyst (or some technical but non-engineering) position, if I get one.

as for the temp agency, you're saying that if I get hired for them, I can eventually get hired for an actual engineering company?

 

[Ryker]

So are there any others with similar experience as the OP? Are one's chances of getting a (nice) job with "only" having a B.Sc. in Physics really so bleak?

 

[lisab]

I think that at this point I feel so hopeless about getting an engineering position or internship that I'll just accept an offer for a programming/analyst (or some technical but non-engineering) position, if I get one.

as for the temp agency, you're saying that if I get hired for them, I can eventually get hired for an actual engineering company?

Yes, it's possible. A lab I used to work for used temps routinely, and the ones that they liked were eventually offered full-time positions - that was how I got on with them.

It gives companies a way to "sample" a potential hires. Too many people look great on paper but are less-than-stellar on the job (in my experience, companies use this method ot evaluate an employee's "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_skills" ," which are critcal to good performance).

 

[Firefox123]

Sorry I haven't logged onto PF in a while...

I heard that at those large companies, about 90% of the hirings are done by referrals from friends or family. So if you don't know anyone who works there, you're screwed, whether you have a physics or engineering degre

90%?

Nope...this is untrue...whoever told you that is dead WRONG.

All I have ever worked is defense and I have been involved with hiring new engineers...believe me...you are NOT screwed if you don't know someone.

What has been your job search approach so far?

 

[Firefox123]

I'd apply to large companies anyway, despite what you've heard about needing to know someone to get in.

This is good advice...actually its excellent advice.

One time and one time only...I have gotten an initial interview because someone recommended me...every other job interview and job offer was 100% because of my resume, experience, and interview skills...

Another possibility is signing up for a technical temp agency. This a) gets money in your pocket, b) gives you experience, and c) might get you hired on full-time, because many companies hire that way - they use the temp route to "test drive" applicants.

Once again...good advice.

 

[xxChrisxx]

I have a B.S. in physics from a reputable school with a good GPA, numerous publications in highly reputable journals and I am still not able to get a job anywhere. Hell, I can't even get an interview because very very few jobs want someone with a degree in physics. They want an engineering discipline or computer science discipline. Both of which I'm very well versed in from my research experience and highly capable.

Yet, I've been told at least 20 times this year that a Physics degree is not what they are looking for.

I was planning on getting my M.S. right away, but I really need a job to pay for piling up bills and am thus only able to go part-time.

My advice, or rather statement, is do not try to get a job with just a B.S. in physics.

My problem was believing my advisors and online sources that engineering/comp sci disciplines would be intersted in a physics degree.

/Edit: I am so depressed lol

You are selling yourself in totally the wrong way then. A bachelors degree is less about exactly what you have studied and more about showing how you work.

And real science / engineering degree, shows you have very good analytical, mathematical, and problem solving skills. The fact you will have undoubtedly written many reports shows good communication is needed.

Basically you need to sell your skills gained, not the degree itsself.EDIT: Bloody old threads. I never look at the date :(

 

[206PiruBlood]

EDIT: Bloody old threads. I never look at the date :(

Nonetheless, it is still good advice for others.

 

[cronxeh]

I am a firm proponent of internships. You need to assume that those companies you've applied to don't want to hire you because 1) you don't know anything and 2) you don't have any experience doing the things you don't know anything about. The internship will give you access to the company's methods and if you are able to adapt they will offer you something more permanent.

And don't forget the military. Stop thinking materialistically and start thinking abstractly. If you join the Air Force as an officer, they will pay for you to go to AFIT for graduate degrees, you will learn leadership, management, and a myriad of other technical skills that will almost surely land you a federal gig after you are honorably discharged.

 

[creepypasta13]

Sorry I haven't logged onto PF in a while...



90%?

Nope...this is untrue...whoever told you that is dead WRONG.

All I have ever worked is defense and I have been involved with hiring new engineers...believe me...you are NOT screwed if you don't know someone.

What has been your job search approach so far?

Mostly just applying online at the aerospace/defense company websites.

Anyways, I've gotten plenty of interviews with companies that aren't in aerospace/defense. My blog, http://cypherscouter13.blogspot.com/, summarizes what's been helpful for me getting job interviews at companies that are not aerospace/defense companies. But my problem is that I can't get interviews at the aerospace/defense companies, which is where I'd much rather work

 

[Antiphon]

Bottom line: if you want to be a physicist you must get your phd. The ms in physics is widely regarded as the consolation prize for those who could not meet the rigours of the phd program. If you want to do engineering, get a degree in engineering.

Someone steered you wrong. A BS in physics might get hired to actually do physics but it's as unusual as a pre-law degree that doesn't go to law school.

Sorry but that's how it is.

 

[Shackleford]

Bottom line: if you want to be a physicist you must get your phd. The ms in physics is widely regarded as the consolation prize for those who could not meet the rigours of the phd program. If you want to do engineering, get a degree in engineering.

Someone steered you wrong. A BS in physics might get hired to actually do physics but it's as unusual as a pre-law degree that doesn't go to law school.

Sorry but that's how it is.

I'll be happy just to finish my BS and then get an MS. lol.

 

[Winzer]

In hind site, I probably should have switched to Chemical Engineering a while back, or at least double with physics and economics to set myself up for an MBA.