Why is Time DILATION Called Time DILATION?

In summary, the phenomenon known as time dilation is called so because it refers to the stretching or lengthening of time intervals observed between two reference frames in relative motion. This is due to the slowing down of clocks in the moving frame compared to the stationary frame, which is observed from either perspective. The terminology can be seen as a matter of perspective, as the moving frame may also observe a "contraction" of time in the stationary frame. This concept is also known as differential aging, where one clock runs slower than another depending on the frame of reference. This can be seen in the Twin Paradox, where one twin ages slower than the other due to a difference in frames of reference. These principles also apply to particles in motion, where
  • #36
arindamsinha said:
mentz114 said:
If there is no face-to-face ( ie co-located) comparison, you are talking about something which cannot be observed which is a waste of time. If the worldlines of the clocks involved are known, then the elapsed time on the clocks are invariants whose values are easily calculated.

I explained this with the thought experiment in post #15. Co-location is not necessary for establishing differential aging. Signals exchanged at the speed of light between distant locations can establish the same.

What exactly is 'co-location' anyway? Can you define it in terms of 'observations' not using signals at the speed of light?

You're ignoring what I said. There is no need to 'establish' differential aging. It follows from the fact that every worldline has its own invariant proper time.

If time dilation is just the 'apparent, or coordinate-dependent' effect, what use is it anyway, since it must be symmetrical between two bodies? As you mention, it is not 'physical', meaning it is an 'apparent' effect depending on 'where you observe it from' - analogous to 'parallax error'. Both are very readily understandable and correctable using Newtonian mechanics and common sense. It would appear using Doppler effect even in Newtonian mechanics.
Now you're agreeing with me and contradicting yourself.

"Differential aging" or "relative time dilation" is the real essense of relativity theory, in my opinion. I don't understand why people make such a big fuss about separating "time dilation" and "differential aging". When Einstein talked about "time dilation" he was clearly talking about "differential aging".
Wrong. Einstein called differential aging 'the clock paradox'.

Your thinking is very woolly. Stick to invariants. Time dilation is not an invariant.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #37
The case of a equatorial and polar observer is really a case of twin differential aging not just time dilation because the equatorial observer keeps returning to a fixed point in the polar observer's rest frame. In exchanging signals, the polar observer is effectively getting slightly delayed information about this 'twin' situation. As a result, the accumulated average time difference between polar and equatorial clock is invariant, not observer dependent.

If two observers simply move past each other at some relative speed, each forever considers the others clock to be slow, and other observer's have various different conclusions about which clock is faster.

Note, the non-inertial character of the equatorial clock must be considered (you can't consider them the origin of a coordinate system that can use the Lorentz transform or the Minkowski metric). However, since you are interested in invariant features (exchange of signals with information), you can do the analysis most simply in any inertial frame (e.g. the polar inertial frame). This frame is sufficient for computing any actual observation or measurement made by the equatorial observer. Note also, that a frame in which the Earth was moving at .999c would be almost as simple to use, and would compute identical results for the behavior of exchanged signals and world line proper time information they carry. However, it would differ radically on 'time dilation' applicable to the polar and equatorial clocks.
 
Last edited:
  • #38
Nugatory said:
By "fixed to a point on the equator", you mean that there is a point on the equator that is at rest in the frame, right? No such frame can be inertial because it is accelerating, and I see no way to discuss it without considering the acceleration.


@Nugatory - Since in SR there is no preferred frame of reference, what is the 'point on the equator' accelerating w.r.t. to? Einstein does not refer to any acceleration at all in his example. There is a way to discuss it without considering any acceleration - a preferred IRF from which both observers' velocities are measured. The polar point has no velocity in this IRF, the equatorial point does. I believe this is implicit in Einstein's example.

PAllen said:
The case of a equatorial and polar observer is really a case of twin differential aging not just time dilation because the equatorial observer keeps returning to a fixed point in the polar observer's rest frame.

@PAllen - Absolutely correct, but w.r.t. what frame is the equatorial observer returning to the same point? We are talking about a single preferred IRF w.r.t. which we are looking at both observers, I think you will agree.

-------------

A lot of discussion in this thread seems to be about differentiating the terminologies of "time dilation" and "differential aging". My understanding is that "time dilation" is just a combination of the classical Doppler effect combined with "differential aging". Would you agree?
 
  • #39
arindamsinha said:
@Nugatory - Since in SR there is no preferred frame of reference, what is the 'point on the equator' accelerating w.r.t. to?

Unlike velocity, acceleration does not have to be defined with respect to something else.

In SR (and GR with a more careful definition of "acceleration") an accelerated frame and a non-inertial frame are the same thing, so if I can observe non-inertial behavior I know that I'm being accelerated - even if there's nothing else around for the acceleration to be relative to. The most natural way to for me at the equator to measure my radial acceleration towards the center of the Earth due to the Earth's rotation is to study the behavior of an object moving in the radial direction; it will move eastward in violation of the law of inertia and I'll know that I'm not in an inertial frame. A sensitive enough accelerometer would also do the trick; and the accelerometer reading is the position of a needle on a scale, and that has to be an invariant fact not relative to anything else.
 
  • #40
arindamsinha said:
ghwellsjr said:
1) Since the traveling twin's clock is essentially stopped during the trip, it will end up 10 seconds behind the Earth twin's clock when they do the synchronization verification test you described.

But having answered this, it doesn't help me understand what you are saying.
Thanks for taking this up and answering the question.

I was trying to establish that velocity-based differential aging between two bodies (and agreement on the same by both), is not dependent on the moving twin coming back to origin to be 'co-located' with the stationary twin to 'compare clocks'. It can be done at any point during the traveling twin's journey using light-signals.
This is not true. Here is a diagram that depicts a similar situation to the one you proposed except that it uses the same parameters as the one in post #33 but without the moving twin returning:

attachment.php?attachmentid=54486&stc=1&d=1357475698.png


You are giving preference to this one frame, the Inertial Reference Frame (IRF) in which the "stationary" twin remains inertial. In this IRF, the differential aging after the moving twin comes to mutual rest with the "stationary" twin is 4.5 quarter hours (a little over an hour) with the moving twin younger. But look at this diagram in which the moving twin is inertial during his moving portion of the trip:

attachment.php?attachmentid=54487&stc=1&d=1357475698.png


Here there is a different criterion for what is simultaneous and now the stationary twin is the one that is younger by slightly over 2 quarter hours (a little over a half hour).

Of course, every IRF will show the same results for whatever light signals are exchanged between the twins, but that is not sufficient to establish unambiguous simultaneity and that's what you have to do to determine differential aging. Differential aging is answering the question, between this coordinate time and that coordinate time, what is the difference in how two observers age? Even if the two observers agree with each other because they implicitly are using their mutual rest IRF, that doesn't mean the question has been answered the same for all other IRF's. The only way for all IRF's to get the same answer is if the two observers are colocated at the first coordinate time and again colocated at the last coordinate time, (not necessarily the same location, not necessarily even at rest in the same IRF nor do the observers even have to be in mutual rest at either time). All this is simply to remove any ambiguity about simultaneity issues at the start and the end of the process.
arindamsinha said:
ghwellsjr said:
He does not say that "B could similarly be considered slower by the moving clock A" because A is not at rest in an Inertial Reference Frame (IRF).
You misunderstood me. I said A in 'its own rest frame' (which of course is an IRF as well, and A is at rest in that IRF, in the situation considered). As I said, he didn't deny it, but just that he didn't stress it, and then went on to an example where there is a clearly established stationary and moving frame - which I found very interesting.
The clock moving in a circle is constantly accelerating. If it weren't, it would go in a straight line. It has to accelerate in order to move in a circle. It is not inertial. It cannot be at rest in an IRF. Einstein only considered a single reference frame when discussing the differential tick rate of the two clocks and he did not address the issue of the differential aging.
arindamsinha said:
Subjective. Can you point out exactly what?
You don't have a correct idea of what Time Dilation is nor of what Differential Aging is and I suspect you don't understand Relativistic Doppler
arindamsinha said:
This is a SR situation we are discussing. So, without bringing in GR or acceleration, what prevents us from seeing the polar clock as 'rotating' w.r.t. an IRF fixed to a point on the equator?
I've never brought GR into the discussion but somehow you seem to associate acceleration with GR. I'm not sure you understand what acceleration is. The clock on the equator is accelerating in order to maintain a circular path. You could, if you wanted to (I don't) consider a non-inertial frame in which the equator clock is at rest and in which the pole clock is moving but I don't think you're ready for that.
 

Attachments

  • Twins at 15d.PNG
    Twins at 15d.PNG
    24.6 KB · Views: 414
  • Twins at 15f.PNG
    Twins at 15f.PNG
    42.7 KB · Views: 417
  • #41
arindamsinha said:
@PAllen - Absolutely correct, but w.r.t. what frame is the equatorial observer returning to the same point? We are talking about a single preferred IRF w.r.t. which we are looking at both observers, I think you will agree.

-------------

A lot of discussion in this thread seems to be about differentiating the terminologies of "time dilation" and "differential aging". My understanding is that "time dilation" is just a combination of the classical Doppler effect combined with "differential aging". Would you agree?

The 'twin like' feature of the equatorial path is that it has periodic intersections with an inertial space time path that has zero relative velocity compared to the polar observer's (presumed) inertial space time path. This circumstance is true in every coordinate system or reference frame.

You have the concept of time dilation backwards. Differential aging and Doppler are the invariant observables. Time dilation is a feature of the how a particular clock's time relates to coordinate time; it can then be used to compute the invariants: differential aging, clock time between two physically identifiable events, and Doppler.
 
Last edited:
<h2>1. What is time dilation?</h2><p>Time dilation is a phenomenon in which time appears to pass at different rates for observers in different reference frames. This means that time can appear to move slower or faster depending on the relative motion of the observer.</p><h2>2. Why is it called time dilation?</h2><p>The term "time dilation" was coined by Albert Einstein in his theory of relativity. It refers to the stretching or dilation of time that occurs when an object moves at high speeds or experiences strong gravitational forces.</p><h2>3. How does time dilation occur?</h2><p>Time dilation occurs due to the principle of relativity, which states that the laws of physics are the same for all observers in uniform motion. When an object moves at high speeds, its time appears to slow down from the perspective of a stationary observer. This is due to the fact that the object is covering a larger distance in the same amount of time.</p><h2>4. What evidence supports the concept of time dilation?</h2><p>There is a significant amount of evidence that supports the concept of time dilation, including experiments with atomic clocks, observations of fast-moving particles, and the accuracy of GPS technology. All of these phenomena can only be explained by the effects of time dilation.</p><h2>5. How does time dilation affect our daily lives?</h2><p>While time dilation may seem like a concept that only applies to objects moving at extreme speeds, it actually has a small but measurable effect on our daily lives. GPS technology, for example, must account for the time dilation of satellites in orbit in order to provide accurate location data. Additionally, astronauts experience time dilation when traveling in space, which can cause them to age slightly slower than people on Earth.</p>

1. What is time dilation?

Time dilation is a phenomenon in which time appears to pass at different rates for observers in different reference frames. This means that time can appear to move slower or faster depending on the relative motion of the observer.

2. Why is it called time dilation?

The term "time dilation" was coined by Albert Einstein in his theory of relativity. It refers to the stretching or dilation of time that occurs when an object moves at high speeds or experiences strong gravitational forces.

3. How does time dilation occur?

Time dilation occurs due to the principle of relativity, which states that the laws of physics are the same for all observers in uniform motion. When an object moves at high speeds, its time appears to slow down from the perspective of a stationary observer. This is due to the fact that the object is covering a larger distance in the same amount of time.

4. What evidence supports the concept of time dilation?

There is a significant amount of evidence that supports the concept of time dilation, including experiments with atomic clocks, observations of fast-moving particles, and the accuracy of GPS technology. All of these phenomena can only be explained by the effects of time dilation.

5. How does time dilation affect our daily lives?

While time dilation may seem like a concept that only applies to objects moving at extreme speeds, it actually has a small but measurable effect on our daily lives. GPS technology, for example, must account for the time dilation of satellites in orbit in order to provide accurate location data. Additionally, astronauts experience time dilation when traveling in space, which can cause them to age slightly slower than people on Earth.

Similar threads

  • Special and General Relativity
Replies
16
Views
597
  • Special and General Relativity
2
Replies
47
Views
3K
  • Special and General Relativity
Replies
10
Views
406
  • Special and General Relativity
Replies
9
Views
234
  • Special and General Relativity
Replies
1
Views
616
  • Special and General Relativity
2
Replies
53
Views
3K
  • Special and General Relativity
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • Special and General Relativity
Replies
17
Views
2K
  • Special and General Relativity
2
Replies
45
Views
2K
  • Special and General Relativity
Replies
29
Views
1K
Back
Top