What are the rules for immigration into Japan?

[plus]

Personally, I think that the Japanese should have the right to let whoever they want into their country. If this means no one, then so be it.

One supposedly negative effect from not allowing in immigrants is that the population will decrease. However, Japan has only a small amount of area, and yet 100 million+ people. It is already massivlely overcrowded. However, they are missing out on the positive economic benefits which immigration allows, such as a high proportion of working age people.

 

[arildno]

Well, but it would be in order to change the racist laws against the native Ainu population

 

[plus]

Well, but it would be in order to change the racist laws against the native Ainu population

Yes I agree there should be no inherintly racist laws. There are about 15000 of these people and I had not even heard about their plight.

 

[Nereid]

Isn't there some migration into Japan? For example, those of Japanese descent, currently living in Brazil, Peru, ...? What about the Filipino 'mail brides' for poor rural men? There's certainly a degree of illegal immigration, from China for example, and 'sex workers' (some of whom are slaves).

 

[BlackVision]

Isn't there some migration into Japan?

Very very little. The non Japanese population in Japan is 1%. And 0.6% of it is Koreans who were taken there for forced labor during the colonization period of Korea. Also non Japanese tend to be ill treated and heavily discriminated against in Japan. Far more so than minority groups in America or Europe.

 

[Dagenais]

Also non Japanese tend to be ill treated and heavily discriminated against in Japan.

Are you sure?

A lot of them seem to really like Americans...or at least a part of their culture.

 

[plus]

What about the Filipino 'mail brides' for poor rural men?

I think that the Filipine mail brides propably don't go to poor rural men, they more likely go to the older richer sort. In my experience people living in rural areas can get wives pretty easily as men are more likely to emmigrate to the city.

 

[plus]

Are you sure?

A lot of them seem to really like Americans...or at least a part of their culture.

It is the authorities which discriminate against the gaijins. However, there is quite a lot of publicity about the the much higher crime rate of the immigrants. This, even though the immigrants are korean and chinese, and have a very low rate of crime in western countries. Imagine the misery if they had the blacks with their high crime rates as discussed in another thread.

 

[BlackVision]

Are you sure?

A lot of them seem to really like Americans...or at least a part of their culture.

It varies I suppose. There's a lot that's genuinely interested and curious about Americans. But there seems to still be plenty that will also discriminate against them and look down on them.

 

[BlackVision]

Imagine the misery if they had the blacks with their high crime rates as discussed in another thread.

Japan will never allow Black immigration. The Japanese might look down upon a lot of different ethnic groups but none more so than Blacks. After WWII and the military occupation of Japan by American soldiers, there was a certain amount of Japanese women fathered by Black American soldiers. The Japanese sent these kids along with their Japanese mother to Brazil.

Keep in mind these are people that frown upon and heavily discriminates against even Koreans and Chinese. People that would be virtually genetically identical and indistinguishable from them. Now imagine how they would treat people that would actually look different than them.

 

[Dagenais]

But there seems to still be plenty that will also discriminate against them and look down on them.

As a Quebecois, I can't believe I'm saying this. The Japanese have no reason to look down on the US. If it wasn't for the US supporting them after WWII, I doubt Japan would be as strong as they are in the electronics and vehicle manufacturing business. The US didn't have to give them a ton of money after dropping the bomb, but they did. And Japan is as strong as ever economically right now.

Keep in mind these are people that frown upon and heavily discriminates against even Koreans and Chinese. People that would be virtually genetically identical and indistinguishable from them.

And the Koreans and Chinese discriminate against the Japanese. And the Chinese discriminate the Koreans - they don't really like each other. I've noticed that the most discrimination is against Koreans.

They aren't indistinguishable. It's quite easy to tell them apart if you've seen a lot of them, by behavior, the way they dress, their face and hair.

I'm almost never wrong when I have to distinguish between Chinese, Korean and Japanese.

 

[Nereid]

Very very little. The non Japanese population in Japan is 1%. And 0.6% of it is Koreans who were taken there for forced labor during the colonization period of Korea. Also non Japanese tend to be ill treated and heavily discriminated against in Japan. Far more so than minority groups in America or Europe.

IIRC, these are the 'official' figures; the extent of illegal immigration into Japan is difficult to assess. However, as a discerning visitor to a large Japanese city will soon notice, there are not a few 'foreigners' living in Japan (probably not as citizens!); the waiters in Chinese restaurants who speak the Shanghai dialect fluently, for example; the teachers of (spoken) English; ... An earlier era also saw an influx of foreign genes, which may be continuing to this day - occupation armies always seem to produce those sorts of results.

 

[Nereid]

I think that the Filipine mail brides propably don't go to poor rural men, they more likely go to the older richer sort. In my experience people living in rural areas can get wives pretty easily as men are more likely to emmigrate to the city.

You may be right; AFAIK, the poor rural farmers can't get local women to marry them (they prefer to escape to the cities, as you say), and these men have very limited opportunity to leave their farms. The Filipino women see an opportunity to escape desparate poverty at home ...

 

[BlackVision]

The Japanese have no reason to look down on the US.

Hiroshima? Nagasaki? Besides, the Japanese believe they are intellectually and culturally superior to everyone else.

If it wasn't for the US supporting them after WWII, I doubt Japan would be as strong as they are in the electronics and vehicle manufacturing business. The US didn't have to give them a ton of money after dropping the bomb, but they did. And Japan is as strong as ever economically right now.

It would be a complete mistake to say that Japan got it's economical strength because of America. Japan was already an economically strong country BEFORE WWII.

And the Koreans and Chinese discriminate against the Japanese. And the Chinese discriminate the Koreans - they don't really like each other. I've noticed that the most discrimination is against Koreans.

They all discriminate against each other. Koreans against Chinese, Japanese. Chinese against Koreans, Japanese. Japanese against Chinese, Korean. I wouldn't say the most discrimination is against Koreans, it seems to be quite even. Asians never seemed to be able to intermingle the way Europe has.

They aren't indistinguishable. It's quite easy to tell them apart if you've seen a lot of them, by behavior, the way they dress, their face and hair.

Here'a a site that will test your ability. You give it a shot. http://www.alllooksame.com

I'm almost never wrong when I have to distinguish between Chinese, Korean and Japanese.

Well then we should expect a perfect score out of you correct? Most Asians will tell you that they do not have the ability to tell them apart and you're telling me you can?

Can you also tell a person from Eastern China to someone from Western China? How about Eastern coast China to Manchuria China? Not to mention much of Manchuria China used to be part of the Korean Empire. And Korea was under both Chinese and Japanese rule. The descendants of Japanese is said to be from mainland China and Korea as well. There have been attempts by both China and Japan in the past to merge the area now designated as Korea into their own country and eliminate the Korean language and replace it with their own. And China is a whole bunch of ancient little countries that formed one country. With all these facts taken into consideration, you are telling me your accuracy is near 100% in telling someone from these 3 groups apart?

Ask a Korean, how many times he's been mistaken for Japanese or Chinese, among both Asians and non Asians. Ask a Japanese, how many times he's been mistaken for Korean or Chinese, among both Asians and non Asians.

 

[Leong]

Hiroshima? Nagasaki? Besides, the Japanese believe they are intellectually and culturally superior to everyone else.


It would be a complete mistake to say that Japan got it's economical strength because of America. Japan was already an economically strong country BEFORE WWII.


They all discriminate against each other. Koreans against Chinese, Japanese. Chinese against Koreans, Japanese. Japanese against Chinese, Korean. I wouldn't say the most discrimination is against Koreans, it seems to be quite even. Asians never seemed to be able to intermingle the way Europe has.


Here'a a site that will test your ability. You give it a shot. http://www.alllooksame.com


Well then we should expect a perfect score out of you correct? Most Asians will tell you that they do not have the ability to tell them apart and you're telling me you can?

Can you also tell a person from Eastern China to someone from Western China? How about Eastern coast China to Manchuria China? Not to mention much of Manchuria China used to be part of the Korean Empire. And Korea was under both Chinese and Japanese rule. The descendants of Japanese is said to be from mainland China and Korea as well. There have been attempts by both China and Japan in the past to merge the area now designated as Korea into their own country and eliminate the Korean language and replace it with their own. And China is a whole bunch of ancient little countries that formed one country. With all these facts taken into consideration, you are telling me your accuracy is near 100% in telling someone from these 3 groups apart?

Ask a Korean, how many times he's been mistaken for Japanese or Chinese, among both Asians and non Asians. Ask a Japanese, how many times he's been mistaken for Korean or Chinese, among both Asians and non Asians.

Your comments seem very neutral. i like them.

 

[plus]

You may be right; AFAIK, the poor rural farmers can't get local women to marry them (they prefer to escape to the cities, as you say), and these men have very limited opportunity to leave their farms. The Filipino women see an opportunity to escape desparate poverty at home ...

I do not know what AFAIK, but my point was precisely the opposite. The women are less likely to emmigrate to the city because they are less ambitious/ adventurous and are more likely to prefer to stay in the areas they know. This is why there are more women in rural areas.

 

[plus]

As a Quebecois, I can't believe I'm saying this. The Japanese have no reason to look down on the US. If it wasn't for the US supporting them after WWII, I doubt Japan would be as strong as they are in the electronics and vehicle manufacturing business. The US didn't have to give them a ton of money after dropping the bomb, but they did. And Japan is as strong as ever economically right now.

Japan got powerful to dominate their area of the world by copying the European inventions. They already had a hard working motivated organised society and so they took to it relativly easily.

Japan will never allow Black immigration.

I doubt this. Eventually they will have the same political correctness which the western countries have. If only for 10 years, but by then the african immigrants will be settled.

 

[Nereid]

I do not know what AFAIK, but my point was precisely the opposite. The women are less likely to emmigrate to the city because they are less ambitious/ adventurous and are more likely to prefer to stay in the areas they know. This is why there are more women in rural areas.

As Far As I Know

Is that how it works in the US? If so, then maybe it is quite different in Japan - perhaps something to do with inheritance of land (sons only) and barriers to selling it?

 

[Nereid]

Japan got powerful to dominate their area of the world by copying the European inventions. They already had a hard working motivated organised society and so they took to it relativly easily.

One curious thing - firearms were introduced into Japan as early as the time of the Portuguese 'black ships', but when Perry did his thing centuries later, he found that 'arms' meant swords, bows&arrows, etc; apparently firearms were not adopted, despite their clear advantage in terms of lethality at a distance.

Lots of examples like this throughout the world, throughout history - including in European history. Maybe the US will enter such a period before too long too?

 

[Dagenais]

I wouldn't say the most discrimination is against Koreans, it seems to be quite even.

No, I noticed that the Chinese and Japanese get extremely offended when you call them "Korean". The Chinese have many discrimnatory names for Koreans due to their behavior. You'd be much better off mistaking a Chinese for Japenese than Korean.

Well then we should expect a perfect score out of you correct? Most Asians will tell you that they do not have the ability to tell them apart and you're telling me you can?

Yes, especially by the way they talk and dress.

On that one, I missed three. I'm sure I'd get them if I talked to each person.

In places like British Columbia, it's really quite simple to tell them apart, especially Koreans by behavior.

Ask a Korean, how many times he's been mistaken for Japanese or Chinese, among both Asians and non Asians. Ask a Japanese, how many times he's been mistaken for Korean or Chinese, among both Asians and non Asians.

I'm Chinese.

I've only been mistaken to be Korean by Koreans, or cacausian strangers.

Never has a Chinese went up to me and insisted I was Korean. The only thing close was when a Chinese person went up to me and started speaking Mandarin. And even then - knew I was Chinese.

No Japanese person has ever come up to me and assumed I was Japanese.

It's even easier to tell who's from Hong Kong, and who's not. By their behavior and the way they dress.



Edit: #10 was mixed - that's not fair.

 

[Monique]

No, I noticed that the Chinese and Japanese get extremely offended when you call them "Korean". The Chinese have many discrimnatory names for Koreans due to their behavior. You'd be much better off mistaking a Chinese for Japenese than Korean.

There is the same rivalry between the dutch, belgians and the germans: we've got nicknames and jokes, nothing malicious.

So how many did you get correct in the test? honest answer?

 

[Dagenais]

There is the same rivalry between the dutch, belgians and the germans: we've got nicknames and jokes, nothing malicious.

We have names for the Koreans that imply that they are dumb barbarians, and things along those lines. I would hardly call them jokes unless you find someone degrading your culture, people and history funny.

Aside from WWII, we don't have that many discriminatory names towards Japanese.

So how many did you get correct in the test? honest answer?

I missed three, I took the test again so that I couldl explain the ones I missed and why I thought they were the answer I chose:

#6 - I chose Korean due to the appearence of her face. Not being able to talk to her, see her behavior and just a part of her dress. Her face does indeed look Korean. I would have never guessed Japanese. Besides, she even looks a bit mixed. Not fair.

#8 - The long hair like that seems more popular amoung Japanese. Most Chinese guys I've seen keep their hair short, or if it's long, still above the neck, dyed blonde. My next guess would have been Chinese, but I rarely see Chinese with pony tails - if they do, they need to check themselves.

#11 - Korean due to his choice of hair, and the look of his face. It's really unfair in a picture, because they don't have regular facial expressions making it more difficult. And again, I can't see what he's wearing or how he behaves. The correct answer is Japanese, but I was positive he was Korean.

#15 - I got this one correct. I chose Korean, but I guessed. I had a Tae Kwon Do teacher that looked extremely similar to that. I also rarely see Chinese people with that kind of a hair cut - and I can easily tell he isn't Japanese.


I had friends take it too, most say that the test isn't fair because they're facial expressions aren't regular, and we can usually tell better if we can see the way they talk and dress. And a few believed 6 was mixed.

 

[BlackVision]

I doubt this. Eventually they will have the same political correctness which the western countries have. If only for 10 years, but by then the african immigrants will be settled.

Asian countries tend to have a different outlook toward immigration. I mean for thousands of years, not just currently. Japan, Korea, and China, they've all been hermit societies for thousands of years. Asia never intermingled the way Europe has and it seems unlikely they ever would. They seem to advocate a closed door policy.

It isn't just African immigration they wouldn't allow, but they wouldn't allow any immigration. Japan, Korea, these are economically well off countries that Southeast Asians would kill to be in. But Japan's population is 99% Japanese and Korea is very close to 100% Korean.

Also keep in mind that even if you're born in Japan and even if your parents and grandparents are also born in Japan, you still cannot get Japanese citizenship or vote in national elections, unless you're Japanese. A foreigner will never be treated as equal in Japan.

 

[Nereid]

Asian countries tend to have a different outlook toward immigration. I mean for thousands of years, not just currently. Japan, Korea, and China, they've all been hermit societies for thousands of years. Asia never intermingled the way Europe has and it seems unlikely they ever would. They seem to advocate a closed door policy.

You might find this article on http://www.wordiq.com/definition/List_of_Chinese_ethnic_groups (as they are called in China) of some interest. In particular, click on the Hui; if you get a chance to visit China, particularly say Xi'an - an ancient Chinese capital, Chinese end of the Silk Road - do go to the main mosque there, and visit a Hui restaurant ... you may even meet someone all too happy to practice their English by telling you all about the history of their people. Hermit society for thousands of years? Never intermingled??

Oh, and ask hitsquad about Cavalli-Sforza et al's findings on the 'Chinese' population groups (it's not at all what you might think!).

 

[BlackVision]

No, I noticed that the Chinese and Japanese get extremely offended when you call them "Korean".

Not more so than calling Korean, Chinese or Japanese. Koreans are deeply offended if they're mistaken for Chinese or Japanese.

You'd be much better off mistaking a Chinese for Japenese than Korean.

Bull. The relationship between Chinese and Korean is actually much better than between Chinese and Japanese. You have no idea the resentment the Chinese has against the Japanese due to World War II. The Japanese killed over 8 million Chinese civilians during WWII and had systematic rapes. Believe me the Chinese still have very hard feelings over this.

You do know that China and Japan met in Asian Cup 2004 not too long ago right? Which took place in China. Tell me what happened. Even before the game started, the Japanese national anthem was inaudible due to the entire stadium booing. And what happened after Japan won the game? There were riots, burning of Japanese flags, plans to boycott all Japanese products. To say that the Chinese has resentments against the Japanese would be an understatement.

Yes, especially by the way they talk and dress.

That wouldn't be facial features. And even then, there's quite a lot of Asians that are americanized. How do you tell then?

On that one, I missed three.

Now you wouldn't be the type that lies just to attempt to prove your point right?

In places like British Columbia, it's really quite simple to tell them apart, especially Koreans by behavior.

Come to Los Angeles, see how well you do. And if I'm not mistaken, quite the vast majority in BC is Chinese. As is the rest of Canada. The ratio of Chinese to Japanese and Korean in Canada is very high. Whereas in a place like Los Angeles, there is roughly an equal volume of all 3. So most people assume you're Chinese when the vast majority of Asians in Canada is Chinese? What a coincidence!

I'm quite sure the small minorities of Japanese and Korean in Canada get mistaken for Chinese all the time. Something that wouldn't happen for Chinese. It would be the exact same reason why Hispanics in America are all assumed to be Mexican because the vast majority of Hispanics in America are from Mexico. A Mexican in America will never get mistaken for Guatemalan. But a Guatemalan sure as hell will get mistaken for Mexican all the time.

I'm Chinese.

You sure your viewpoints aren't due to your own resentment toward Koreans?

You have absolutely got to be joking me if you think the Chinese has more resentment against Koreans than the Japanese. What happened in Asian Cup 2004 would not have happened if it was China and Korea at the finals.

I've only been mistaken to be Korean by Koreans, or cacausian strangers.

When you live in a country where 90%+ of the Asian population is Chinese, you're wondering why most will assume you're Chinese? I'm quite sure the majority of Koreans and Japanese will get assumed to be Chinese first as well since their numbers are very small in proportion to the Chinese population in Canada.

You're not from Manchurian Chinese are you? Can you tell me you can tell a Chinese person from Manchuria China apart from Korean. Especially when that region was one country for a lot of it's history?

There are still a lot of Koreans in Manchuria China as that area used to be part of Korea at one point. Can you tell a Korean from Manchuria China apart from a Korean in modern day Korea?

There's likely more difference from Manchuria China to Eastern Coast China then there is from China to Korea.

 

[BlackVision]

So how many did you get correct in the test? honest answer?

I've had all my Asian friends take this test. All of them got roughly 6. The equivalent to tossing a 3 sided die.

 

[BlackVision]

To Dagenais:

Canadian population 2001:

Chinese: 1,094,700
Korean: 101,715
Japanese: 85,230


You honestly can't figure out why most people in Canada will assume you're Chinese? The gap is even wider in Quebec which is where you live.

 

[Dagenais]

Believe me the Chinese still have very hard feelings over this.

No, really?!

Bull. The relationship between Chinese and Korean is actually much better than between Chinese and Japanese.

Their political relationship may be good, but the Chinese have never liked the way the Koreans carry themselves.

You do know that China and Japan met in Asian Cup 2004 not too long ago right?

Did you see the thread I started about that?

Maybe you should browse around PhysicsForums before making a comment like that, make sure to read the thread.

That wouldn't be facial features. And even then, there's quite a lot of Asians that are americanized. How do you tell then?

I never claimed I could tell Asians apart solely on Facial features alone. Stop putting words in my mouth. :grumpy:

I wouldn't know about Americanized Asians. You do realize where I live, right? :uhh:

You sure your viewpoints aren't due to your own resentment toward Koreans?

No, I'm positive. Unless you believe that I'm the person that invented the wildly used words to discriminate Koreans?

I don't want you to start the, "You're a racist", accusations (oh wait, you already did), so I won't even bother going into the many Korean friends I have. I'm sure I would take Tae Kwon Do, bow to Koreans and call him "Grand Master", if I 'resented' them, like you sadly claim. That would make a lot of sense. :uhh:

 

[BlackVision]

Maybe you should browse around PhysicsForums before making a comment like that, make sure to read the thread.

Do you think I read every single thread on this forum? How much time do you think I have?

I wouldn't know about Americanized Asians. You do realize where I live, right?

And in Canada there aren't Asians that tend to live life the Canadian way?

I don't want you to start the, "You're a racist", accusations (oh wait, you already did)

I haven't. I was throwing out a possibility. Notice the ? mark at the end of my statement not a period.

so I won't even bother going into the many Korean friends I have

Only 4,000 Koreans in the entire providence of Quebec. How many could you possibly run into?

 

[Monique]

I've had all my Asian friends take this test. All of them got roughly 6. The equivalent to tossing a 3 sided die.

I thought I was pretty good at keeping them apart, but I also didn't do better than a dice toss.

 

[Prometheus]

Asian countries tend to have a different outlook toward immigration. I mean for thousands of years, not just currently. Japan, Korea, and China, they've all been hermit societies for thousands of years.

You have repeated "thousands of years" twice. I still have no idea what you are talking about. Even assuming the smallest number of thousands, two, what is your point? Japan and Korea, whatever such words might mean 2,000 years ago, were not hermit societies. Even the word society might be difficult, depending on what you might mean by this word. As for China, what does hermit society mean in their context? They devoured everything they came in contact with that they could control, and tried to keet out the rest, who usually came over the great wall.

Asia never intermingled the way Europe has and it seems unlikely they ever would.

I agree. The cultural and linguistic differences are far greater than in Europe.

They seem to advocate a closed door policy.

I don't understand why you think that it seems so.

 

[BlackVision]

Japan and Korea, whatever such words might mean 2,000 years ago, were not hermit societies.

Yes they were.

I agree. The cultural and linguistic differences are far greater than in Europe.

Well if you believe less social contact between countries is greater.

I don't understand why you think that it seems so.

You know absolutely nothing about Asia's history do you? Learn a little more and then come back. For starters google "Korea hermit" and see the thousands of pages that come back. The same can be done with China and Japan as well.

 

[Nereid]

You know absolutely nothing about Asia's history do you? Learn a little more and then come back. For starters google "Korea hermit" and see the thousands of pages that come back. The same can be done with China and Japan as well.

Results of googling 'China hermit' (as you suggest) reveal (a thoroughly inscientific analysis):
- lots of references to the Hermit Kingdom (= Korea) and China
- many references to hermits (individuals) who are Chinese (as in 'sages')
- a few odd references (someone seems to have given themselves - or their product - the name 'China hermit')
- just one reference to China emerging into a role in world trade negotiations, etc (i.e. something about contemporary international politics)
... but none about China being a hermit society, or closed and entirely inward-looking (except for this last ref). :surprise: Would it help to step through each of the Chinese dynasties - from the Chin, say - and look at the extent to which they were 'hermit societies'?

 

[BlackVision]

a thoroughly inscientific analysis

You meant "unscientific" right?

lots of references to the Hermit Kingdom (= Korea)

Ah so you've been able to find references that Korea was a Hermit Kingdom. Let's get that country out of the way now then.

As far as China, they were extraordinarily closed door. Europeans have on many occassions throughout history tried to have open trades with China, only for China to more often than not shut the door on them. China also never really bothered to explore the world around them because they believed everything they needed was right there inside their own country. I do not know of a country that China really intermingled with in it's history. Except maybe to fight wars with. China, like other Asian countries, really kept to themselves.

Japan was also very closed door but finally did open it's door in the 1800s. Not because they really wanted to but because they realized if they were going to be an economically and militarily powerful country, they needed to open trades with the West. And that is exactly what happened.

 

[Nereid]

You meant "unscientific" right?

You know what they say about imitation ...

Ah so you've been able to find references that Korea was a Hermit Kingdom. Let's get that country out of the way now then.

I agree that the discussion of whether Korea or Japan could be regarded as 'hermit societies' should be separated from a discussion about whether China is, or was, one such.

As far as China, they were extraordinarily closed door. Europeans have on many occassions throughout history tried to have open trades with China, only for China to more often than not shut the door on them. China also never really bothered to explore the world around them because they believed everything they needed was right there inside their own country. I do not know of a country that China really intermingled with in it's history. Except maybe to fight wars with. China, like other Asian countries, really kept to themselves.

Just to be clear then, from your perspective, reluctance to trade with Europeans is an example of what constitutes a 'hermit society'?

If you would care to broaden your perspective beyond Europe - which is, after all, quite distant from China - you will find that Chinese dynasties have engaged in widespread trade for millenia. For example, http://www.ess.uci.edu/~oliver/silk.html . Did you read the material on the Hui people (I provided a link in an earlier post)?

Regarding intermingling, you might like to read up on http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/CHEMPIRE/YUAN.HTM .

Regarding exploration, may I suggest some reading about http://www.chinapage.com/zhenghe.html (also called Zheng Ho; it's a question of how you transliterate the characters).

Finally, you may like to investigate the http://www.gseis.ucla.edu/faculty/chu/chinos/diaspora.html , both in the 19th and 20th century, and the preceeding millenia.

{note to those readers who do not wish to take the trouble to read up on these points: China has a very long and rich history of interaction with other nation states - in many cases through war, in many cases through trade, but also in religion (e.g. Xuan Zhang), exploration, and much else. Of course there were times when the Emperor had no interest in events outside his empire (other than to defend the frontiers).}