Is Intelligent Life Out There in the Universe?

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In summary, the conversation discusses the existence of alien life and the likelihood of communicating or being visited by them. The majority of people believe that intelligent life exists in the universe, but it is rare and we may never be able to communicate with it. Factors such as the vastness of space, the uniqueness of Earth's conditions, and the limitations of technology make it difficult to establish contact with other intelligent life forms. However, there is still a possibility that we are not alone in the universe, and advancements in technology may increase our chances of discovering and communicating with other forms of life.
  • #1
MajorComplex
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I've asked this question to a lot of people and a good majority of them said no, aliens do not exist. I just don't understand their logic in thinking that. To me I think there's a 100% chance that inteligent life exists out there. Life on our planet isn't so special in my eyes, to me it seems life in the universe would be just as common. Our planet is crawling with creatures of all shapes and sizes, some more inteligent than others. If a planet out there had the same, or similar conditions, life from here could live there perfectly. I mean, there's probably billions of lives being born, living and dieing every day on this planet, human or not. Is that really not a mirical that could exist some where else in the universe?

We have 2000 years of recorded history, which is a hell of a long time. With the size of the universe and the amount of time it's been alive there could be species out there who have 4000 years of records, maybe even 5000 or 10,000, who knows. They could be in a multi-populated system, even in a multi-populated galaxy, all of which we are completely oblivious to.

I don't understand why people think that way, but they do... Maybe someone could shed some light...
 
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  • #2
The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy is a wholly remarkable book. The introduction begins like this:

"Space," it says, "is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly hugely mindboggingly big it is. I mean you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space. Listen ..." and so on.

We might as well be alone in the universe if the closest intelligent life form is two or three galaxies away from us. There is good reason to believe that intelligent life is not widespread at all. See https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=1202100".
 
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  • #3
The questions Does alien life exist? and Have we or will ever communicate with or be visited by alien life? are very distinct.

I personally believe that life is not unique to the Earth, and other planets almost assuredly have something we would classify as "life," even if it's near the boundary between what we'd simply call "chemistry." Quite a lot of "biochemistry" can happen in a test tube without really being connected to anything we'd call "life."

Despite believing that alien life exists, I believe that we will never communicate with it or be visited by it. We've seen on Earth that evolution favors simplicity, and the majority of the Earth's biomass is bacteria and lower forms of life. I suspect that life elsewhere would go a similar route, and intelligent life is probably quite rare.

You might want to fill in Drake's equation with your own personal estimates for each term, and see for yourself what chance you really believe in.

- Warren
 
  • #4
I guess you'd have to take in account the question of, "how wide spread is life?" too. I mean, just because we won't be visited by, communicate with or even listen to inteligent life out there, still doesn't mean it won't exist. If all these theories on black holes and worm holes could be true, would that not be more of a miracle than the miracle we call life on Earth?

Our planet just shows what can sprout from "the right conditions." Life in the ground, life in the air, life on land and even life in the sea, to the very depths of the planet. It's a very over exadurated miracle if you ask me.

We're not very advanced, not very advanced at all.
 
  • #5
There is also the question of what we mean by "out there". Drake's equation is for this galaxy only. Include all galaxies and the answer has to be that there is a 100% [99.999...to many significant digits] chance of "intelligent life" out there; that, or the universe was made for just for us. :biggrin:

It seems that the odds for intelligent life in this galaxy are growing by the day. Not only are we discovering new planets regularly, now we even know of ways to identify earth-like planets. If we find large numbers of those, Seth Shostak and Jill Tartar should be done soon. Also, "rare" can still be a large number in galactic terms.

Shostak is predicting success with the Allen Array.
 
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  • #6
MajorComplex said:
We're not very advanced, not very advanced at all.

This is such an interesting and common expression of humanity. We tend to exhibit enormous individual hubris, and then express deep humility about our entire species...

Why shouldn't we believe that we are an exceptional, advanced life form? What reason is there to not believe that all other "inhabited worlds" are inhabited only by algae?

Drake's equation doesn't take into account the events -- improbable events -- that led to human life on our own planet. Many factors, from our large Moon to asteroid impacts to oxygen-producing cyanobacteria to dramatic climate change, all seem to have been crucial in our evolution. Even if the galaxy contains several hundred planets that could support advanced life, it's unlikely that any of them experienced the same kinds of events that the Earth experienced on the way to evolving intelligent life.

I also believe that the universe is so large, and other stars so distant, that it greatly inhibits anyone intelligent lifeform from finding any others. Sure, the world looked enormous to travellers only a centuries ago, and now we can fly to Hong Kong in a few hours and sip wine in a leather chair -- but that was just a matter of technology.

Communicating with (and traveling to) other inhabited planets might be physically impossible. Imagine if we eventually discover another civilization broadcasting their own radio signals even so "close" as the Andromeda Galaxy. A conversation will take billions of years. Travelling there is essentially impossible. Even at ultra-relativistic velocities, the people aboard the starship will have to procreate, live, and die for thousands of generations during the journey. Who knows what "species" would finally show up at the aliens' doorstop?

- Warren
 
  • #7
Any form of specie other than what we know on Earth would be alien. (It can even be argued that any form other than Homo sapiens is alien) But to think that not a single life form exists is thick and narrow minded.
 
  • #8
The chances of intelligent life existing elsewhere increase with the size of the universe, but the chances of an encounter get smaller.
I mean we would first have to be detected, and so far we have a pretty small radius.
 
  • #9
Even us our selves are aliens... To an outside race we would be no different in their eyes then they would be to us.

One thing I do think though is if they had the technology to get here, they'd also have the technology to obliterate us off the face of the planet. Slavery anyone?
 
  • #10
paul_peciak said:
But to think that not a single life form exists is thick and narrow minded.
Actually, what's thick and narrow-minded is thinking there's only one valid viewpoint about this issue... :uhh:
 
  • #11
there are probably creatures living on electrons asking the same question:)
 
  • #12
sheldon said:
there are probably creatures living on electrons asking the same question:)

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
 
  • #13
It's either we are alone in the universe, or someone else is out there. Both options are scary as hell.

look up in the sky and there will be ten thousand million million stars shining at you, each glimering with a little faint shine. out of all those other stars, don't you think at least one of them are also ideal for life, no matter how conceitedly special we claim our planet is. people always say that Earth is in 'the "perfect" spot. a one in a million chance.' but if you think about how many times the dice has been rolled, chances are they are out there somewhere.

I think that hollywood has done a disservice by portraying aliens as rutheless conquerors and psychotic abductors in film after film. Its amazing that life developed on two separate planets would ever meet, why would they waste their only other friend in the universe just for some type of conquest. You can think of it this way, let's say I am dropped off on the planet with no other life around me (pretend i can photosynthesize or something xD) and i walk around every day aimlessly wondering if i will ever meet another person. And one day, i find someone named joe, fand for all we know, we are the only ones on the entire planet. and then i kill him.

WHY would an alien race kill the only other life forms in the known univers
 
  • #14
sheldon said:
there are probably creatures living on electrons asking the same question:)

:rofl:

for all we know we the entire universe could be the size of a quark to another being greater than us

what if the big bang were just a routine experiment at the alien version of CERN and we are the byproducts of a particle accelerator
 
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  • #15
MajorComplex said:
I just don't understand their logic in thinking that.
[ snip ]
To me I think there's a 100% chance that inteligent life exists out there. Life on our planet isn't so special in my eyes, to me it seems life in the universe would be just as common.
You expect logic from others yet your stance is merely belief. Why do you hold others to a standard higher than you hold yourself?


MajorComplex said:
Our planet is crawling with creatures of all shapes and sizes, some more inteligent than others.
...I mean, there's probably billions of lives being born, living and dieing every day on this planet, human or not.
All of which had a single common origin.
What's 1 billion x 1? Lots.
Reproducing isn't the problem.
What's 1 billion x 0? Still 0.


MajorComplex said:
If a planet out there had the same, or similar conditions, life from here could live there perfectly.
Sure. If they were transplanted** there. Of what relevance is that?

MajorComplex said:
We have 2000 years of recorded history, which is a hell of a long time. With the size of the universe and the amount of time it's been alive there could be species out there who have 4000 years of records, maybe even 5000 or 10,000, who knows. They could be in a multi-populated system, even in a multi-populated galaxy, all of which we are completely oblivious to.
This is called an imagination. It has nothing to do with the likelihood that life started out there.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I believe there's nothing out there, and I'm not saying you shouldn't continue to believe. But you can't claim to have any more logical argument than anyone else. Wait until the data's in.




**Tee hee. I made a typo. I created the word transplaneted.
 
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  • #16
what if we were some science fair experiment for an elementary school somwehre else in theuniverse. I"m sure that student has received a good grade.
 
  • #17
Ki Man said:
what if we were some science fair experiment for an elementary school somwehre else in theuniverse. I"m sure that student has received a good grade.

Maybe, maybe not. You just reminded me of something David Hume said when attacking the notion of a perfect creator:

"This world, for aught he knows, is very faulty and imperfect, compared to a superior standard; and was only the first rude essay of some infant deity, who afterwards abandoned it, ashamed of his lame performance.. "
:biggrin:
 
  • #18
Math Is Hard said:
"This world, for aught he knows, is very faulty and imperfect, compared to a superior standard; and was only the first rude essay of some infant deity, who afterwards abandoned it, ashamed of his lame performance.. "
:biggrin:
My dog ate my planet. :biggrin:
 
  • #19
DaveC426913 said:
My dog ate my planet. :biggrin:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
 
  • #20
Who says that life is limited to beings that exhibit characteristics that we have knowledge of. For all we know, the mechanism of "life" could be realized through means other than "earthlike" conceptions. I'm sure that in certain circumstances certain compounds or energy variations could fulfill a role analogous to what water does here on earth. Maybe "life" exists in the middle of a sun? Maybe relatively (to us) extreme habitats like ultra-high energy are the perfect breeding ground for other mechanisms that are similar to the mode of behavior that we claim "life" exhibits here. Maybe we should define life before we ask if it exists elsewhere.
 
  • #21
In spite of the stories of TV and radio signals telling the universe that we are here, I am under the impression that the signals we send are too weak to reach very far at all. A signal that could get out with appreciable energy at the receiving end would have to have its energy concentrated in a narrow band of frequencies and focused in a narrow ray. I believe that we are sending out such a signal or that there are plans to do so. We are looking at the hydrogen line from distant stars to better understand them. I think the frequency of the output signal is on that line in the hopes that other intelligent life would look at that frequency too. If I am not wrong, the SETI project does not look for radio signals with signs of intelligence in them, but simply for a narrow band signal. The idea is that we can search for them more quickly that way and once we find such a signal, we can look at its content for patterns.
 
  • #22
chroot said:
The questions Does alien life exist? and Have we or will ever communicate with or be visited by alien life? are very distinct.

I personally believe that life is not unique to the Earth, and other planets almost assuredly have something we would classify as "life," even if it's near the boundary between what we'd simply call "chemistry." Quite a lot of "biochemistry" can happen in a test tube without really being connected to anything we'd call "life."

Despite believing that alien life exists, I believe that we will never communicate with it or be visited by it. We've seen on Earth that evolution favors simplicity, and the majority of the Earth's biomass is bacteria and lower forms of life. I suspect that life elsewhere would go a similar route, and intelligent life is probably quite rare.

You might want to fill in Drake's equation with your own personal estimates for each term, and see for yourself what chance you really believe in.

- Warren

I agree 110%. Since we have already confirmed quite a few Jupiter sized planets, the chances the smaller Earth sized planets should be fairly good (in my mind) Choose from anyone of the seemingly infinite galaxies and I personally would guess that there is intelligent life somewhere there.

It's almost like a joke though, because everything is so amazingly far apart that the chances of two intelligent life forms contacting each other is probably very very close to 0. Of course I don't pretend to know whether or not there is intelligent life out there other than us, but I have a feeling that there is, or should be.
 
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  • #23
We can't calculate the chances of direct contact unless we can calculate the odds of what the limits of physics might be - we can only guess that GR [or really, just the SR limit. GR is what helps to keep the door cracked open] properly describes ultimate limits. In short, any statement of the odds of direct contact is a faith statement. It might be that the chance of contact is 100% but we just don't know that yet.
 
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  • #24
I believe it exists in our very own solar system.

With creatures living at the bottom of the ocean that do not depend on oxygen or the sun as a means to energy, it seems very plausible that similar life forms can exist on a moon such as Europa. Of course, it would be deep within the planet, and we may never go that far as we already have a hard time getting that far on our very own planet.
 
  • #25
Does life exist out there? Probably. Intelligent life? I'm a skeptic until I see evidence. Believing in intelligent life without evidence of existence is like having faith in a god.

Just because the sun rises and sets everyday can I assume that the sun will rise tomorrow? Just because life evolved into intelligent life here on Earth can I assume that it probably did somewhere else out in the universe?
 
  • #26
I'm almost positive that there is more intelligent life somewhere in the universe. I forgot the estimates, but it's something like 100 billion galaxies with each one having around 100 billion stars on average. Umm, 100 billion squared is a large number, and that is the number of stars in the universe. You are telling me that there isn't a planet around at least one other star with intelligent life?
 
  • #27
i think this solar system could have been seeded by aliens, who left a satellite with massive storage for 'flight recorders' in our heads and an ai system that trys to learn through us, that or quantum creatures exist. i have a hard time grasping the concept of god. things just don't happen out of nowhere.

don't laugh to hard :redface:

but yes if something out there 'rules us' i guess that would make them/it god? other life forms in the universe most certainly.
 
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  • #28
moose said:
I'm almost positive that there is more intelligent life somewhere in the universe. I forgot the estimates, but it's something like 100 billion galaxies with each one having around 100 billion stars on average. Umm, 100 billion squared is a large number, and that is the number of stars in the universe. You are telling me that there isn't a planet around at least one other star with intelligent life?

I assume nothing. Until there is actual EVIDENCE of intelligent life, I won't believe in it. I'm not saying that there isn't any intelligence out there, but there exists 0 evidence thus far. A 4th grader who has ever studied science knows that science relies on facts and theories that are testable. by scientific standards this seems to imply that so far the claim that "there exists intelligent life" seems to be false. the claim that there definitely has to be intelligent life out there is mere speculation, not scientific fact--yet.
 
  • #29
Definitely agreeable that there is no scientific evidence to support life elsewhere, and might never be. But from a probabilistic standpoint, I believe that the odds are in favour. Now of course this depends on what you feel are fair numbers for the Drake equation, but you'd have to make them pretty unbelieveably low to come up with no other life at all.
 
  • #30
Actually, there was evidence for life on Mars from the Viking missions, but the consensus was that it was a chemical reaction unrelated to biology. However, there still are scientists who feel that life was found in the seventies.

Also, there is still debate about the Mars rock.

So, although most feel that there are other explanations, we do have two pieces of evidence for life on Mars.
 
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  • #31
Also, since I'm nitpicking the definitions, we also have plenty of anecdotal evidence of visiting ETs, but we have no scientific evidence to support this. We do have some scientific evidence to support claims that unidentified objects are in our skies at times.
 
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  • #32
Ivan Seeking said:
Also, since I'm nitpicking the definitions, we also have plenty of anecdotal evidence of visiting ETs, but we have no scientific evidence to support this. We do have some scientific evidence to support claims that unidentified objects are in our skies at times.

Visiting ETs or super secret government projects like stuff along the lines of the Philadelphia Experiment? Just because there are UFOs doesn't mean it is intelligent life visiting Earth.



Definitely agreeable that there is no scientific evidence to support life elsewhere, and might never be. But from a probabilistic standpoint, I believe that the odds are in favour. Now of course this depends on what you feel are fair numbers for the Drake equation, but you'd have to make them pretty unbelieveably low to come up with no other life at all.

The drake equation is mere speculation at best. As Michael Chriton pefectly put it "The Drake equation cannot be tested and therefore SETI is not science. SETI is unquestionably a religion,". I read the wiki article on the Drake equation, and the criticisms leveled against it expose the enormous flaws of it. Also reading the wiki article for the Drake equation it linked to another article on the "Rare Earth Hypothesis" which was interesting. According to the rare Earth hypothesis the number of other planets that exists that have intelligent life could be as low as 0 or 1. Once again it is more speculation, but a constrasting way of thinking.


Actually, there was evidence for life on Mars from the Viking missions, but the consensus was that it was a chemical reaction unrelated to biology. However, there still are scientists who feel that life was found in the seventies.

Also, there is still debate about the Mars rock.

So, although most feel that there are other explanations, we do have two pieces of evidence for life on Mars.


Okay so we found some small microbe on Mars. That is life, but not intelligent life.
 
  • #33
you have to ask what makes life intelligent, if it's the ability to adapt than an ameba is just a few jumps from you considering the thought of (big bang for example) an understood timeline of universe.
 
  • #34
I don't see how you could call SETI a religion, seeing as all they are doing is testing a hypothesis. It's like calling looking for life at the bottom of the ocean a religion isn't it? I don't get it.

But anyways, I don't think that the Drake equation was ever meant to be tested, for it can never give provable results! The drake equation is just an equation, and can enter in your own parameters for what you think are reasonable estimates for the parameters, and get a theoretical number out of it. Anyone that would say that "Aha! There must be life out there because the Drake equation told me so!" doesn't get it... in my mind. But I think that saying that "The drake equation shows us that we would have to select extremely low probabilities for the parameters of the drake equation to come up with no life at all" is a reasonable and accurate assertion and tells us something about the probability of intelligent life elsewhere.
 
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  • #35
gravenewworld said:
Visiting ETs or super secret government projects like stuff along the lines of the Philadelphia Experiment? Just because there are UFOs doesn't mean it is intelligent life visiting Earth.

Well, first of all, the notion of visiting ETs is a separate issue from secret government projects, of which there are many, so I'm not sure why you lump the two into one sentence, but as I have already shown above, to say that ET could not be visiting is a faith statement. The opinion is as valid as any other, but it is still a faith statement.

Next, I never said that any UFOs are crafts flown by ET. I said there is evidence for UFOs. In fact, I was making the dinstinction between anecdotal evidence, which is often considered legal evidence, and scientific evidence, which requires a measurement. And unlike the Phili experiment story, we certainly have reams of anecdotal evidence of ET encouters and of crafts that are seemingly not of this world. But the hard data - the scientific evidence - only tells us that there seems to be things called UFOs - meaning unidentified objects.

The word evidence has been used as if there is only one form of evidence. Also, the statement that there is no evidence for life on Mars confuses the idea of evidence, with that of proof. Or, it assumes that weak evidence is the same as no evidence.

Okay so we found some small microbe on Mars. That is life, but not intelligent life.

I didn't say that it was intelligent life. I was responding to this:
Definitely agreeable that there is no scientific evidence to support life elsewhere, and might never be.
 
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<h2>1. What is the likelihood of intelligent life existing in the universe?</h2><p>The likelihood of intelligent life existing in the universe is difficult to determine. It is estimated that there are billions of galaxies, each containing billions of stars, and many of these stars have planets. Based on this vast number of potential planets, it is highly probable that there is intelligent life somewhere in the universe.</p><h2>2. How do we define "intelligent life"?</h2><p>Intelligent life is generally defined as a form of life that has the ability to think, reason, and communicate complex ideas. It is also often associated with the development of advanced technology and civilizations.</p><h2>3. Have we discovered any evidence of intelligent life in the universe?</h2><p>As of now, there is no concrete evidence of intelligent life in the universe. However, there have been various unexplained phenomena and signals that have sparked speculation about the existence of extraterrestrial intelligence.</p><h2>4. What methods are scientists using to search for intelligent life in the universe?</h2><p>Scientists use a variety of methods to search for intelligent life in the universe, including radio telescopes, optical telescopes, and space missions. They also study the potential habitability of exoplanets and look for biosignatures that may indicate the presence of life.</p><h2>5. What are the implications of discovering intelligent life in the universe?</h2><p>The discovery of intelligent life in the universe would have significant implications for our understanding of the universe and our place in it. It could also lead to advancements in technology, communication, and potentially even collaboration with other intelligent beings. However, it could also raise ethical and philosophical questions about our interactions with other forms of life.</p>

1. What is the likelihood of intelligent life existing in the universe?

The likelihood of intelligent life existing in the universe is difficult to determine. It is estimated that there are billions of galaxies, each containing billions of stars, and many of these stars have planets. Based on this vast number of potential planets, it is highly probable that there is intelligent life somewhere in the universe.

2. How do we define "intelligent life"?

Intelligent life is generally defined as a form of life that has the ability to think, reason, and communicate complex ideas. It is also often associated with the development of advanced technology and civilizations.

3. Have we discovered any evidence of intelligent life in the universe?

As of now, there is no concrete evidence of intelligent life in the universe. However, there have been various unexplained phenomena and signals that have sparked speculation about the existence of extraterrestrial intelligence.

4. What methods are scientists using to search for intelligent life in the universe?

Scientists use a variety of methods to search for intelligent life in the universe, including radio telescopes, optical telescopes, and space missions. They also study the potential habitability of exoplanets and look for biosignatures that may indicate the presence of life.

5. What are the implications of discovering intelligent life in the universe?

The discovery of intelligent life in the universe would have significant implications for our understanding of the universe and our place in it. It could also lead to advancements in technology, communication, and potentially even collaboration with other intelligent beings. However, it could also raise ethical and philosophical questions about our interactions with other forms of life.

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