The uniqueness of a magnet? Let me tell you why.

In summary, the conversation discusses the remarkable features of magnets and their ability to attract and repel objects with their own force. The comparison to springs and electrical forces is also mentioned. One participant is particularly fascinated by magnets and their ability to hold a stable force for a long time without the need for external energy input. However, another participant argues that this is not a special feature of magnets, but rather a phenomenon present in all matter. The conversation also briefly touches on the confusion between wall plugs and screw anchors. Overall, the conversation highlights the unique and intriguing properties of magnets and their potential for further exploration and study.
  • #1
Miyz
200
0
In all of the things that we've discovered have you ever found something as amazing like a magnet? An object that can attract/repel (by using force!) on its own similar other magnets or metals. The only object present to withhold a significant amount (depending on type,size,etc...) of force! Without applying anything to it. Many of you would say that its similar to a spring, well it is in someways but in reality completely different, the reason why most of you compare the two is to show a few facts about energy.

When you bring to of those objects and look at them, CLEARLY a magnet has the full capability to attract any metal/magnet near by and applying force BY its own(forget the point of "you" putting the magnet/metal there) It also repels by its own, now how can you compare it to a spring? A spring on the other hand stays there doing nothing... ONLY when you apply force to it directly and leave it be... It acts by its own. but only then you'd find an act from the spring! However, again I remind you that a magnet has a force of its own mind you, why can't aren't we amazed significantly at this feature?

And when you say that it has no energy, in fact it does(potential energy). It attracts/repels a magnet, that is force applied to a magnet within a distance = W = Fd , and when attracted by a magnet or repeled or even attracts a metal, let me remind you of its "potential" state converted into "kinetic". (Simplest way to describe it without going into detail.)Im a man fascinated by electromagnetism specifically: Magnets, and their wonderful feature of having a force packed inside that some of them can lift 10x or 100x or 1000x of its own weight. HOW REMARKABLE IS THAT!
Let the discussion begin!Miyz,
 
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  • #2
Is magnetism more remarkable than the electric forces that keep solids together - even the magnet to which you refer? A simple wall plug can support a million times its own weight when installed correctly. (Ancient Rawlplug advert I read once.)
 
  • #3
sophiecentaur said:
Is magnetism more remarkable than the electric forces that keep solids together - even the magnet to which you refer? A simple wall plug can support a million times its own weight when installed correctly. (Ancient Rawlplug advert I read once.)

I agree. Electrical forces are the main reason why all things are attracted to one another. But let me remind you, a permanent magnet has its force stable and may last for a very long time, if you would compare a P.magnet to a wall plug, the plug without the electricity flowing through it is nothing.

If you leave a Neo.magnet for example, on a table with no interference, good cool temperature, its force could last to 100 years... A wall plug will need that electric force to stay flowing supported by an energy source that requires its input to be fed continuously. Thats just mind blowing to me right there...
 
  • #4
Miyz said:
I agree. Electrical forces are the main reason why all things are attracted to one another. But let me remind you, a permanent magnet has its force stable and may last for a very long time, if you would compare a P.magnet to a wall plug, the plug without the electricity flowing through it is nothing.

If you leave a Neo.magnet for example, on a table with no interference, good cool temperature, its force could last to 100 years... A wall plug will need that electric force to stay flowing supported by an energy source that requires its input to be fed continuously. Thats just mind blowing to me right there...

Think you got hold of the wrong plug.
It's a rawlplug with the electrical forces that hold the wall together and the plug.No electrical input needed.
 
  • #5
It's the UK/US English problem. I got confused myself, had to look it up. In US, wall plugs are known as screw anchors.
 
  • #6
K^2 said:
It's the UK/US English problem. I got confused myself, had to look it up. In US, wall plugs are known as screw anchors.

hahaha this really cranked me up!
 
  • #7
K2, what do you have to add? Do you find anything interesting about "magnets"?
 
  • #8
Not really, no. It just tells me what an enormous amount of potential electrostatic force there is entombed in matter due to positive and negative charges canceling out, if a tiny "leak" due to relativistic corrections can result in quite a significant amount of force between magnets. It's not really something special about magnets themselves, as it is about matter overall.
 
  • #9
K^2 said:
Not really, no. It just tells me what an enormous amount of potential electrostatic force there is entombed in matter due to positive and negative charges canceling out, if a tiny "leak" due to relativistic corrections can result in quite a significant amount of force between magnets. It's not really something special about magnets themselves, as it is about matter overall.


True that its something in matter. However, isn't this phenomenon present and obviously shown in magnets? Doesn't that indicate something "special". I always remind you all the "permanent" feature they have, that causes that "force" to be present over a long period of time is very remarkable.
 
  • #10
K^2 said:
It's the UK/US English problem. I got confused myself, had to look it up. In US, wall plugs are known as screw anchors.

PF phrase book needed, I think. Rawlplug is an actual trade name -it was originally a (wood?) fibre cylinder, before the plastic ones were available.
 
  • #11
Buckleymanor said:
Think you got hold of the wrong plug.
It's a rawlplug with the electrical forces that hold the wall together and the plug.No electrical input needed.
Ouch! a major failure of understanding... Ow well hope you all understood my point though!
 
  • #12
I think permanent magnets are so attractive (pun not intended so I'll leave it in there) to us because of their 'Novelty Value'. They are 'exceptions' to what we normally observe around us and the force they can produce is much greater than the electrostatic forces that you get by rubbing plastic etc..
Those new Neo magnets are unbelievable to us old codgers but the new generation will just take them for granted - as we all take colour TV and TByte hard drives for granted these days.
 
  • #13
sophiecentaur said:
I think permanent magnets are so attractive (pun not intended so I'll leave it in there) to us because of their 'Novelty Value'. They are 'exceptions' to what we normally observe around us and the force they can produce is much greater than the electrostatic forces that you get by rubbing plastic etc..
Those new Neo magnets are unbelievable to us old codgers but the new generation will just take them for granted - as we all take colour TV and TByte hard drives for granted these days.

I just loved this post really! Because its funny and wise both of best worlds. I am honestly fascinated by Neo magnets and I'd pretty much put myself in the "new generation" squad. In fact I'd like to research magnets more! Being a unusual exception we should investigate it more and more!

Do you know that when I heard of magnets my reactions was like this: Meh. So? Back then I loved physics but never really considered to pursue it as a career and a major tool in life. But when I did, studied electromagnetism, magnets, energy many things and just stood their mind blown at this amazing small little shiny disc.
 
  • #14
I find magnets fascinating too, but more so by the magnetic field. Interaction between magnets is basically two magnetic fields attracting/repeling each other.
I have always wondered if "something" exists within the space of the magnetic/electric field.
 
  • #15
Knowing that two of these bad http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=BZX0ZX0Y0-N52 alone can lift a CAR! That alone just left me saying: Whaaaaaaaat!

And yet people would tell me to not bother because they aren't "that" significant.
 
  • #16
arul_k said:
I find magnets fascinating too, but more so by the magnetic field. Interaction between magnets is basically two magnetic fields attracting/repeling each other.
I have always wondered if "something" exists within the space of the magnetic/electric field.

We know a strong invisible force is present. That we can all agree 100%(There are other theories but I'm not sure of their "reality").
 
  • #17
Miyz said:
Knowing that two of these bad http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=BZX0ZX0Y0-N52 alone can lift a CAR! That alone just left me saying: Whaaaaaaaat!

And yet people would tell me to not bother because they aren't "that" significant.

I understand your amazement but are the magnets any more 'significant' than the cables being strong enough hold them - except that you don't see magnets every day?
There is a story that, when asked which was the greater, the Sun or the Moon, a Greek philosopher said that the Moon was far greater because it shone at night, when it was dark. The Sun was far less impressive because it shone in the day, when it was light anyway.
Familiarity can breed contempt.
 
  • #18
sophiecentaur said:
I understand your amazement but are the magnets any more 'significant' than the cables being strong enough hold them - except that you don't see magnets every day?
There is a story that, when asked which was the greater, the Sun or the Moon, a Greek philosopher said that the Moon was far greater because it shone at night, when it was dark. The Sun was far less impressive because it shone in the day, when it was light anyway.
Familiarity can breed contempt.


sophiecentaur do you realize "magnets" are probably the only known material to repel and attract its own(Of my own knowledge). No cable( without electricity) can do that, and no wall plug can do that too! Plus that is a long lasting effect that stays easily for 50 years and more depending on the material and state.
 
  • #19
No cable( without electricity) can do that
No magnet can work without electric charges inside either.
The parts in wall plugs (and everything else solid) attract and repel each other, otherwise those objects would evaporate immediately.
 
  • #20
mfb said:
No magnet can work without electric charges inside either.
The parts in wall plugs (and everything else solid) attract and repel each other, otherwise those objects would evaporate immediately.
There is a difference you can't see the electric charges and separation when you look at a solid object unless you use something like an electron microscope.Where as a magnet attracts and repels with an apparent unseen force through all materials with a macroscopic force.You have to wonder how and why does it do that.
 
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  • #21
There is a story that, when asked which was the greater, the Sun or the Moon, a Greek philosopher said that the Moon was far greater because it shone at night, when it was dark. The Sun was far less impressive because it shone in the day, when it was light anyway.
Is this the reason why if you wan't to send a spaceship to explore the Sun you should go at night.
 
  • #24
Buckleymanor said:
There is a difference you can't see the electric charges and separation when you look at a solid object unless you use something like an electron microscope.Where as a magnet attracts and repels with an apparent unseen force through all materials with a macroscopic force.You have to wonder how and why does it it do that.

Another good point. And add to that I'd like to say electrical forces are always there... present.
You can't find a material that has a invisible strong force present besides its electrical force.
 
  • #25
I personally think ALL forces of nature are equally mind blowing. You can't really say one stands out more than another. They're all significant and amazing.
 
  • #26
Surprised nobody has referenced the interview where Feynman was asked about the behavior of magnets... he gets right into the magnet part after about four minutes.

magnets

Oh, Miyz, if you really, really like magnets, take a look at this...
Zen Magnets
 
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  • #27
Miyz said:
Go team magnet! I'm a fan of gravity but a magnet toke my heart first!
My point is that your thread title is about the uniqueness of magnetism, but nothing you mentioned is unique. At least not anything other than your personal affection.
 
  • #28
This thread is beginning to sound like a game of top trumps!
 
  • #29
Miyz said:
We know a strong invisible force is present. That we can all agree 100%(There are other theories but I'm not sure of their "reality").
Right. The force is there, and the "force there" (more precisely, force area or zone) is the original meaning of "force field", abbreviated to "field". That's very objective. :smile: Models of "what really is happening there" are speculation.
 
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  • #30
Miyz said:
When you bring to of those objects and look at them, CLEARLY a magnet has the full capability to attract any metal/magnet near by and applying force BY its own(forget the point of "you" putting the magnet/metal there) It also repels by its own, now how can you compare it to a spring? A spring on the other hand stays there doing nothing... ONLY when you apply force to it directly and leave it be... It acts by its own. but only then you'd find an act from the spring! However, again I remind you that a magnet has a force of its own mind you, why can't aren't we amazed significantly at this feature?

And when you say that it has no energy, in fact it does(potential energy). It attracts/repels a magnet, that is force applied to a magnet within a distance = W = Fd , and when attracted by a magnet or repeled or even attracts a metal, let me remind you of its "potential" state converted into "kinetic". (Simplest way to describe it without going into detail.)


Im a man fascinated by electromagnetism specifically: Magnets, and their wonderful feature of having a force packed inside that some of them can lift 10x or 100x or 1000x of its own weight. HOW REMARKABLE IS THAT!
Miyz,

A few things:

1. Magnets totally rule.

2. MAGNETIC FORCES DO NO WORK. I'm not sure if this was a point of confusion for you, but I had to throw it out there, cause it cracks me up.

3. Your comparison of a spring which apparently does nothing, and a magnet which miraculously attacts/repels other magnets, merits a response. It seems like what's really astounding you is the action at a distance thing. If I drop a spring into a tight gap between two slanted walls, so that the ends are close normal to the walls, it will exert a force on the walls. If you drop a magnet near other magnets, it does attract/repel them. Not so different now, huh. Give springs some cred.
 
  • #31
An Austin 7 beats an E Type Jaguar on the grounds of age and fuel consumption.
 
  • #32
ThereIam said:
A few things:
2. MAGNETIC FORCES DO NO WORK. I'm not sure if this was a point of confusion for you, but I had to throw it out there, cause it cracks me up.


Yea forgive me while writing that down forgot a debate I had earlier in another post. I meant generally magnet have a potential energy that tend to attract magnets and metals. Now interms of the magnetic force doing work... After a long long discussion I agreed its due to the change in B it induced electrical fields that interms does all the work.
 

1. What makes a magnet unique?

A magnet is unique because it has the ability to attract certain materials, such as iron, and repel others. This is due to its magnetic field, which is created by the alignment of its electrons. This unique property is not found in any other substance.

2. How does a magnet's magnetic field work?

A magnet's magnetic field is created by the alignment of its electrons. The electrons in a magnet are arranged in such a way that their magnetic fields are all pointing in the same direction, creating a strong magnetic force. This force is what allows a magnet to attract and repel other objects.

3. Can a magnet lose its magnetism?

Yes, a magnet can lose its magnetism over time or if it is exposed to certain conditions. This can happen if the magnet is dropped or heated to a high temperature. The alignment of the electrons can also be disrupted if the magnet is exposed to a strong magnetic field in the opposite direction.

4. How are magnets used in everyday life?

Magnets have many practical applications in everyday life. They are used in technology, such as speakers, motors, and generators. They are also used in household items like refrigerator magnets, magnetic toys, and magnetic closures on bags and purses. Magnets are also used in medical devices, such as MRI machines.

5. Why are some materials attracted to magnets while others are not?

The ability of a material to be attracted to a magnet depends on its atomic structure. Materials with unpaired electrons, such as iron, nickel, and cobalt, are easily magnetized because their electrons can align with the magnetic field of a magnet. Materials with all paired electrons, such as wood or plastic, are not easily magnetized because their electrons are already in a stable arrangement.

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