Do Ghosts Exist? My Friend Says Yes!

[nucleargirl]

What I really want to know is are ghosts real? Do ghosts exist? I got really freaked out after my friend said his friend can see them (like dead people, especially in graveyards), and once his friend was standing next to a stranger and they could both see the same thing (a ghost obviously)... so that kind of proved they exist... but in some other dimension that only some people can see... that scared me for years!

 

[nucleargirl]

yes this a better forum to post this, thanks.
Ok, well, I don't have much personal evidence for ghosts, but I think there is plenty in the world - a lot of people claim they have seen ghosts, there's footage, and certain places are 'haunted'... are all these fake?
If not, what are ghosts? and do all life have ghosts?I used to think: if I think there are no ghosts then I will start seeing them (like tempting fate?) but recently I've tried to be 'brave' and think they don't exist, and I haven't seen one yet...
and I've been thinking, if all living things left ghosts, then the world wouldn't even have enough space for them! So that made me less scared...

yes, I'm a little neurotic...

 

[leroyjenkens]

I got really freaked out after my friend said his friend can see them (like dead people, especially in graveyards), and once his friend was standing next to a stranger and they could both see the same thing (a ghost obviously)... so that kind of proved they exist... but in some other dimension that only some people can see... that scared me for years!

What's more likely, ghosts existing or liars existing?
Even if they aren't lying, why do you assume people could accurately identify a ghost once they've seen one?
Be wary of anyone who says they saw a ghost. If they're confident what they saw was a ghost, you can be confident they're full of it.

a lot of people claim they have seen ghosts, there's footage, and certain places are 'haunted'... are all these fake?

How many people say they've seen ghosts? Thousands. How many people are capable of lying or being mistaken? Almost 7 billion.

 

[JaredJames]

I must say, every piece of evidence I've seen for ghosts hasn't stood up to even the slightest scrutiny.

Some videos of them look really believable, but most come from tv shows, and if they're on tv (ghost hunters, most haunted etc) the odds are it was staged to get more viewing figures.

If you could completely seal off a supposed haunted house and then perform scientific analysis under strict testing conditions, and then a video was captured of a figure (or anything out of the ordinary that can't be explained), I'd be inclined to start taking them more seriously, but so far, it hasn't happened and no credible evidence (evidence that can be recreated) exists.

 

[nucleargirl]

:) ok I'm starting to feel a bit better. I used to be scared of seeing the girl from the ring come out of my tv... I know its stupid but I was really scared! and I used to be scared of seeing dead people in mirrors... and behind the shower curtain... and in the toilet... and behind any doorway or wall that I can't see past... seriously! It was horrible!

 

[mugaliens]

I cannot state categorically that ghosts do not exist. I can merely state that most people do not see ghosts, and that to date no credible evidence exists which supports the existence of ghosts.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=307647

 

[nucleargirl]

ah I did not come across that thread in my search. thanks!

 

[eupeptic]

I personally asked myself this question 4 years ago as I wanted to know if is a true aspect of reality or not as our ability to obtain scientific evidence of ghosts is limited by our level of knowledge and technology. (Science has come a long way over the past century and is certain to continue to advance significantly over the next century and into the distant future - therefore we should not assume that our current level of scientific knowledge is a 100% accurate and complete understanding of the universe we live in.)

The method I used to obtain knowledge on the subject of ghosts (since most scientists either ignore the subject or aren't able to obtain funding there isn't going to be much scientific evidence of ghosts if they are indeed real) was simply to read as many ghost stories that I could find, and ghosts.org has nearly 1,600 ghost stories available for anyone to read. What I did was read several hundred stories and took notes of the details that I felt may be evidence of the presence of any ghosts as I feel that if ghosts are real than there should be seemingly mundane details that are evident across a reasonable number of stories from different people, but if these stories are detailing things that just appear to be ghosts or are entirely fictional then the details will either suggest something else as the cause or there will be little correlation between the details in the stories.

As far as your fears go, I would encourage you to face your fears and seek as much knowledge as possible about those things you are afraid of as it is quite often that our fears are based on a lack of knowledge, and educating ourselves helps us overcome those irrational fears. (One bit of advice that might help if you are interested in reading the ghost stories at the site I linked is that it should help if you pay less attention to the people and the events in the stories [otherwise your emotions are more likely to run wild] and pay more attention to the details that may be indicative of the presence of a ghost. This is the approach I used and I barely found any of the stories to be scary. I also read the stories with the assumption that they're just stories and not actual events, which I'm sure also helped keep me calm. Though I was saddened by a number of the stories [this one especially] as they do involve death.)

 

[nucleargirl]

Um, thanks eupeptic, but I don't think I'm ready to do that just yet! I'll just get more freaked out... and won't be able to do anything by myself... lol.
So after your reading what did you conclude? That there isn't really much evidence for ghosts?

 

[FlexGunship]

What I really want to know is are ghosts real? Do ghosts exist? I got really freaked out after my friend said his friend can see them (like dead people, especially in graveyards), and once his friend was standing next to a stranger and they could both see the same thing (a ghost obviously)... so that kind of proved they exist... but in some other dimension that only some people can see... that scared me for years!

I certainly wouldn't take you friend's friend's word for it. His claim is easily testable since I can also see ghosts. I will observe a ghost, and then allow your friend's friend see it. If he describes the same ghost, then we know he can see it.

<<smirk>> I'm terribly sorry, this is all incredibly silly. But I hope you see that I can make the claim just as easily as he can. He might not even be lying, perhaps this friend-of-a-friend has at least gone through the trouble of lying to himself so as to not have to lie to you. Additionally, you are setting a very low threshold for proof here (one person claiming to see something and the other one going "yup" is hardly proof).

No, there is no reason to postulate the ethereal existence of ghosts as they are commonly understood. I loooove ghost shows: Ghost Hunters, Ghost Adventures, and Destination Truth to name a few. These shows offer great entertainment value, but the scientific content is null.

You should remind yourself strongly that if you were to encounter a real ghost, you should feel like the luckiest person alive. I would welcome the experience to the highest degree. Furthermore, you should not be scared it all: the number of people injured by ghosts is still zero. (The number of people injured in the pursuit of ghosts, however...)

 

[nucleargirl]

the number of people injured by ghosts is still zero.

yeah! I've never thought about this, but you never see in the news that someone was actually hurt by a ghost! yeah it must not happen very often at all cos otherwise we would all hear of it! yeah and the government doesn't see it as a risk to life - we're never taught how to protect ourselves against ghosts! If I ever get hurt by a ghost I'm complaining to my education system...

 

[JaredJames]

"(The number of people injured in the pursuit of ghosts, however...)"

That's still something that makes me wonder. Why do ghost hunters feel the need to go to such dangerous places (old dilapidated buildings seem to be the favourite - particularly hospitals - ooh and sanitariums, something about the name I suppose?).

They give all that "it's the best place to have spirits appear" talk, but if ghosts truly existed then sitting at home would give just as much chance of them appearing. (I somehow doubt the ground I sit on now has never seen some form of death - human or otherwise, after all why should only humans have spirits?)

 

[JaredJames]

yeah! I've never thought about this, but you never see in the news that someone was actually hurt by a ghost! yeah it must not happen very often at all cos otherwise we would all hear of it! yeah and the government doesn't see it as a risk to life - we're never taught how to protect ourselves against ghosts! If I ever get hurt by a ghost I'm complaining to my education system...

1) Happen very often? Try never.

2) See what as a risk to life? If it doesn't exist, how can it prove a threat to life? A ghost poses no more of a threat to human life than the chance of being impaled by a unicorn.

3) You can only defend against something that poses a real threat.

 

[nucleargirl]

1) Happen very often? Try never.

2) See what as a risk to life? If it doesn't exist, how can it prove a threat to life? A ghost poses no more of a threat to human life than the chance of being impaled by a unicorn.

3) You can only defend against something that poses a real threat.

Do you know what I think it is? People scare themselves to death! Cos I can see how it could happen to me if left unchecked - like people who believe in ghosts would see ghosts in their mind, and their brain could trick them into thinking they see a real ghost, and then they would be so shocked and scared that they could actually hurt themselves...
I mean as in if someone said they were actually hurt by a ghost, this is how it could happen.

 

[Ms Music]

I can't and won't say ghosts do or don't exist. But I do know that recently, I saw something that can only best be described as "paranormal". I still don't believe in ghosts, OR paranormal, but my world of understanding has been turned upside down. Maybe there aren't ghosts. Maybe there ARE ghosts, and only .00001% of the population can see them. How do you prove, either way? Scientifically, I don't think you can. I believe it currently impossible.

I could tell you my story, but since you said

I'll just get more freaked out... and won't be able to do anything by myself... lol.

I'll pass!

But even if they DO exist, I think you are safe sleeping at night, they aren't scary, our brains are. :)

 

[nucleargirl]

what happened! I want to know now! I'm always intrigued by ghosty things and horror movies even though I know they will mess me up!

Did it really happen? were you in a sound state of mind? (like not drunk/hallucinating)
What happened??

 

[Ms Music]

How about I pm you when I get enough time to type up the story? :)

There were 3 of us, all of us were completely sober, and I was very scientific and methodical in my examining it. And the weirdest part of all, even with all the stories you can read on the internet, this one is unique. We had ghost hunters/paranormal hunters that wanted to come see if we could re create it, but my friend didn't want to. (she freaks out, too)

I know, I am the devil for making you wait. :D But work beckons.

 

[Sniperman724]

I would say there are definitely ghosts out there, and there is a select group of people that are able to see them and interact with them as well. It would be pretty hard to just make up some of the stories that I have been told within the past few years.

 

[JaredJames]

I would say there are definitely ghosts out there,

Could you prove this or is this just you 'gut feeling'?

and there is a select group of people that are able to see them and interact with them as well.

Not really testable so how would you know they aren't making it up?

It would be pretty hard to just make up some of the stories that I have been told within the past few years.

It really wouldn't. You'd be surprised at the human imagination. Especially when looking for attention.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

yeah! I've never thought about this, but you never see in the news that someone was actually hurt by a ghost! yeah it must not happen very often at all cos otherwise we would all hear of it! yeah and the government doesn't see it as a risk to life - we're never taught how to protect ourselves against ghosts! If I ever get hurt by a ghost I'm complaining to my education system...

Actually, claims that ghosts leave scratch marks, pull hair, or even pushed someone down a flight of stairs, do pop up from time to time. There are even people who have video taped welt marks as they appear. The default assumption is that this is some kind of trick.

 

[FlexGunship]

It would be pretty hard to just make up some of the stories that I have been told within the past few years.

I think this is my new favorite quote.

 

[FlexGunship]

Actually, claims that ghosts leave scratch marks, pull hair, or even pushed someone down a flight of stairs, do pop up from time to time. There are even people who have video taped welt marks as they appear. The default assumption is that this is some kind of trick.

Agree. It seems to be a common mental trick that you can perpetrate on yourself. Try standing perfectly still and you will feel all of the ticks in your body (due do differing potassium levels, if I remember my biochem). Feelings of being touched or having hair pulled is not overly hard to recreate.

I've only seen the scratch thing overtly faked once. The guy pulling up his shirt to show off the scratch just ran his fingernails over his skin as he lifted the shirt. If it can be faked once, it can be faked every time. Although, I'm willing to believe some people do it to themselves by accident when trying to investigate a "perceived touch."

 

[Quinzio]

what happened! I want to know now! I'm always intrigued by ghosty things and horror movies even though I know they will mess me up!

Did it really happen? were you in a sound state of mind? (like not drunk/hallucinating)
What happened??

Nucleargirl, sleep worriless at night.
Ghosts do not exist and dead bodies are really what they seem, dead.
If a thing has been called dead, it is because it is really dead, once for all.
For how sad it is, dead is a truth in our world, and nor me nor you nor everyone in the world today has the power to do much for it.

About the people claiming they saw ghosts and dead people, don't believe them.
People like to be told amazing stories about strange things because the world is, in the end, a boring place. Nothing new really happends, despite the fact we can travel, watch TV, use many wonder, the brain gets terrible bored in the world.

So, people get attention to whatever new things might happend. But 99.99999% of the time it is just false.

 

[Kevin_Axion]

Ghosts exist! Can't you see that they are discussed and used all of the time in Physics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faddeev–Popov_ghost

 

[Kaldanis]

A few of my friends have 'strange' ghost stories. Even my best friend 100% believes due to these 'trances' his parents go in. It actually happened again quite recently, he says he'd be sitting watching TV with his parents then all of a sudden his dad will just start staring into nothing, claiming to see the ghost of his dead father. The mum says she sometimes sees it too.

It's difficult for me to talk about it with him, since on one hand I want to tell him his parents have some serious mental issues, but on the other hand I don't understand why they would lie or make that up? It's quite hard to mistake a shadow for the ghost of your dead father who keeps appearing to you and speaking (even his mum and dad claiming to see the same thing)

I'm almost certain they don't exist due to the fact that people have been claiming to see them all the time for hundreds of years, and as of yet, there's no single piece of evidence to prove it. It's usually explainable by some trick of the eye or someone just completely lying.

How can I explain the supposed many times my friend's dad's dead father appears to him and his wife?

 

[FlexGunship]

A few of my friends have 'strange' ghost stories. Even my best friend 100% believes due to these 'trances' his parents go in.

I would discount anything someone tells you that involves a trance. The "trance" phenomenon is well understood (closely related to "hypnotism") and has nothing to do with spirituality or the like. I would suggest you rely less on your best friends' world view.

It's difficult for me to talk about it with him, since on one hand I want to tell him his parents have some serious mental issues, but on the other hand I don't understand why they would lie or make that up?

False dichotomy. There are other options besides "serious mental issues" and "lying." These people could be mildly delusional. They could be involved in the recreational drug scene. They might just be so emotionally destroyed that they hallucinate when in the right frame of mind.

The human brain is a miracle piece of cause-and-effect and stimulus-and-response. Never discount the nuances at play there. The human brain is the only machine (biological or otherwise) in which its observational and computational abilities can be affected significantly by it's emotional state.

How can I explain the supposed many times my friend's dad's dead father appears to him and his wife?

It is not your responsibility to explain it.

Illusion 10%
Confusion 30%
Hallucination 50%
Hoax 10%

Frankly, if my dad were dead I would miss him terribly. If my brain were to "hiccup" and produce a vivid image of him, I would probably cling to it as well. Furthermore, I would likely fight off any attacks on the veracity of my claim.

You should express sympathy for your friend's loss, but encourage him to seek psychiatric help.

• Supporting him while he seeks help could be very valuable.
• But supporting his delusion would not be.

 

[Kaldanis]

I appologise if I didn't explain correctly, it's not my friend's dad who is dead, it's his grandfather. My friend's mum and dad are the two who frequently have these experiences. Especially the dad, he often wakes up and sees his father sitting on his bed, or just randomly when watching TV. Sometimes they both have claimed to see the same thing.

My friend frequently tells me his ghostly experiences and I give him other possible explanations (which he ignores), but with his dad and his dead grandfather it's a little harder to discuss it with him without him getting upset- so I just don't talk about that with him.

I will say this though, his family is very open to supernatural things. They aren't religious, but they often go to psychics and believe their horoscope. My friend is also easily spooked and very quick to think something supernatural is happening when there's any number of explanations. Maybe his family is just so inclined to think that way that they're more likey to have these experiences?

 

[MASep101]

If we believe we have a spirit, soul, or energy, then logically that essence must go somewhere when our mortal shell expires. I can also understand that when an entity has unfinished business, they would most probably become Earth bound spirits. I unfortunately have not had the opportunity of experience such a phenomena.

 

[FlexGunship]

I will say this though, his family is very open to supernatural things. They aren't religious, but they often go to psychics and believe their horoscope.

Maybe his family is just so inclined to think that way that they're more likey to have these experiences?

Would you apply that line of thinking to any other type of REAL experience? Allow me to replace "these experiences" with "other experiences."

• Maybe his family is just so inclined to believe in fire that they're more likey to be burned to death
• Maybe his family is just so inclined to believe in electricity that they're more likey to have have working light-bulbs

Do you see how ridiculous the statement is when you apply it to any other phenomenon?

 

[FlexGunship]

If we believe we have a spirit, soul, or energy

You have a long way to go to prove that humans have a spirit or soul... or "energy."

then logically that essence must go somewhere when our mortal shell expires.

Disagree strongly. Where does fire go when it's extinguished? Where does the light form the light-bulb go when you turn it off?

I can also understand that when an entity has unfinished business, they would most probably become Earth bound spirits.

Careful, you're in very deep tautological waters here.

EDIT: Welcome to the forums.

 

[JaredJames]

If we believe we have a spirit, soul, or energy, then logically that essence must go somewhere when our mortal shell expires. I can also understand that when an entity has unfinished business, they would most probably become Earth bound spirits. I unfortunately have not had the opportunity of experience such a phenomena.

I agree with flex on this one. I'm seeing nothing logical in your argument and it would take serious proof to back any of it up.

 

[Kaldanis]

Do you see how ridiculous the statement is when you apply it to any other phenomenon?

I partly agree. Just because someone is more open to supernatural occurances certainly doesn't make them more likely to see something so spefic and detailed such as the ghost of a dead family member. I do however think it makes them more likely to explain simple things with the supernatural. For example, my friend regularly hears some kind of 'tapping' in his walls or on the bathroom door, and he immediately put this down to the ghost of his dead grandfather trying to communicate with him.

 

[FlexGunship]

I partly agree. Just because someone is more open to supernatural occurances certainly doesn't make them more likely to see something so spefic and detailed the ghost of a dead family member. I do however think it makes them more likely to explain simple things with the supernatural. For example, my friend regularly hears some kind of 'tapping' in his walls or on the bathroom door, and he immediately put this down to the ghost of his dead grandfather trying to communicate with him.

I think I see what you're saying. You're saying that they are more likely to interpret an event as supernatural (regardless of whether or not it is) because of their credulity. You are not proposing that their belief in the supernatural actually increases their chance of an "Actual event."

The way in which your friend's family is living is really kind of depressing. I'm not trying to pass judgement, but you can tell that they are prisoners of unreasonable belief. I grew up next door to a woman that lived like this. She had collected "lucky charms" and had short rituals that she believed would give her a better chance of surviving the day.

Honestly, that type of life is only a few short steps from obsessive-compulsive behavior. For example: the neurological imperative that you must not spill salt or break mirrors is not much different than the neurological imperative to touch a door knob three times before opening it.

You should not be embarrassed to suggest this to your friend. If you honestly have his best interest in mind, then suggesting moderate psychiatric evaluation is a compassionate effort.

Look, let me be clear, given the proliferation of "supernatural media" belief is not crazy in and of itself. In fact, it's a common human experience (we all love cool mysteries even if we invent them for ourselves). But your friend and his family seem to have taken it to an unhealthy level so much so that it's impacting their mental health.

Pose the following question to your friend the next time he reports something supernatural to you, ask him how his experience would be different if it were water in pipes, the house settling, or mice in the ceiling. Ask him to tell you how he decides between the two... what criteria does he use?

 

[nismaratwork]

I think I see what you're saying. You're saying that they are more likely to interpret an event as supernatural (regardless of whether or not it is) because of their credulity. You are not proposing that their belief in the supernatural actually increases their chance of an "Actual event."

The way in which your friend's family is living is really kind of depressing. I'm not trying to pass judgement, but you can tell that they are prisoners of unreasonable belief. I grew up next door to a woman that lived like this. She had collected "lucky charms" and had short rituals that she believed would give her a better chance of surviving the day.

Honestly, that type of life is only a few short steps from obsessive-compulsive behavior. For example: the neurological imperative that you must not spill salt or break mirrors is not much different than the neurological imperative to touch a door knob three times before opening it.

You should not be embarrassed to suggest this to your friend. If you honestly have his best interest in mind, then suggesting moderate psychiatric evaluation is a compassionate effort.

Look, let me be clear, given the proliferation of "supernatural media" belief is not crazy in and of itself. In fact, it's a common human experience (we all love cool mysteries even if we invent them for ourselves). But your friend and his family seem to have taken it to an unhealthy level so much so that it's impacting their mental health.

Pose the following question to your friend the next time he reports something supernatural to you, ask him how his experience would be different if it were water in pipes, the house settling, or mice in the ceiling. Ask him to tell you how he decides between the two... what criteria does he use?

Actually, what you're describing sounds like OCD to me, or at least some form of anxiety disorder. Without knowing how this person would react when kept from her rituals it's hard to say, but it seems fairly clear-cut.

In the case of Kaldanis' friend, it's probably far more benign and simple: you miss a relative, and so when you hear something which is (for that person) inexplicable, you go to something comforting: "grandma is still around". To me, they are very different scenarios.