Is entropy the volume in phase space of energy E or LESS than E?

In summary, the conversation discusses the different definitions of entropy in statistical mechanics. The first definition, S=k \ln \Omega, is based on the volume in phase space of all microstates with energy E. The second definition, S=k_B \log \Sigma, uses the volume in phase space where the energy is less than E. The source cited in the conversation states that these two definitions are equivalent, but the reason for this is not fully understood. The conversation also raises a potential issue with the second definition, as it may make it impossible for the entropy to increase with decreasing energy.
  • #1
nonequilibrium
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2
Hello,

I thought the statistical definition of entropy for an isolated system of energy E (i.e. microcanonical ensemble) was [itex]S=k \ln \Omega[/itex] where [itex]\Omega[/itex] is the volume in phase space of all the microstates with energy E.

However, if you take a look here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equipartition_theorem#The_microcanonical_ensemble
there is the line
[tex]\textrm{... Similarly, $\Sigma(E)$ is defined to be the total volume of phase space where the energy is less than $E$ ...}[/tex] [tex]\textrm{By the usual definitions of statistical mechanics, the entropy $S$ equals $k_B \log \Sigma(E)$ ...}[/tex]

so they use the volume in phase space where energy < E instead of the surface where energy = E. Do these notions coincide? I would think they'd conflict. Why do they say "by the usual definitions", I'm confused.
 
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  • #2
I'm finding a source (Huang, Statistical Mechanics, 2nd edition, p134) that states [itex]S = k \log \Omega[/itex] and [itex]S = k \log \Sigma[/itex] are indeed equivalent up to a constant dependent of N. The reason for that, I don't seem to get, as the text is a bit too advanced for me atm.

In a way I'm willing to accept the equivalency (as it would clear up my problem), but there's one thing that bothers me: take for example a state of a certain system such that if you lower the energy, entropy goes up (think of a system with bounded energy), doesn't the [itex]\Sigma(E)[/itex] (= the volume in phase space where energy < E) definition make this behavior impossible, because surely (by definition) [itex]E_1 < E_2 \Rightarrow \Sigma(E_1) < \Sigma(E_2) \Rightarrow S(E_1) < S(E_2)[/itex]?

What am I overlooking?
 

1. Is there a relationship between entropy and the volume in phase space of energy E?

Yes, there is a direct relationship between entropy and the volume in phase space of energy E. As the volume increases, the entropy also increases.

2. How does the volume in phase space affect entropy?

The volume in phase space directly affects entropy. An increase in volume leads to an increase in entropy, and a decrease in volume leads to a decrease in entropy.

3. Is the volume in phase space of energy E always greater than the entropy?

No, the volume in phase space of energy E can be either greater than or less than the entropy, depending on the system and its conditions.

4. Can the volume in phase space of energy E be equal to the entropy?

Yes, in some cases, the volume in phase space of energy E can be equal to the entropy. This usually happens in systems at equilibrium.

5. How does entropy change with changes in the volume in phase space of energy E?

Entropy changes in the same direction as the volume in phase space of energy E. An increase in volume leads to an increase in entropy, and a decrease in volume leads to a decrease in entropy.

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