Decline of Amateur Chemists (a.k.a citizen chemists)

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In summary, chemists known as citizen chemists are people who perform experiments at home, but this activity can come with potential risks. Home chemists can be quite resourceful in acquiring the necessary equipment and materials to conduct their experiments, but they may also have to deal with the disposal of any waste chemicals.
  • #1
Scratchem
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Chemists known as citizen chemists are everyday people who perform experiments to gain knowledge but do not work in a laboratory but rather have a kind of "home laboratory."
So what exactly am I posting? Well, recently I read a post on another scientific forum regarding a decline of citizen chemists (like myself) and describing certain laws that make people like me get nervous about experiments conducted at home. The point here is "if you don't know all the possible combination of a chemical then you may be at risk of the law."

http://www.sas.org/tcs/weeklyIssues_2005/2005-08-12/backscatter/index.html [Broken]

The above is a link that speaks of the topic.
 
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  • #2
Not a saying I have an opinion On Citizen chemists, But this happened near my home.
http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top%20stories/story/Chemicals-removed-from-an-Ogden-mans-home/w3cB1txRQkCD2e-RA3BZ5g.cspx?rss=20
Terrorists are not the only issue.
 
  • #3
About the only "citizen chemists" in this neck of the woods are operating meth labs. One was busted a couple of years back, located in an apartment across the road from the entrance to the Maine Criminal Justice Academy that trains state troopers and wardens. Hmm...probably should have rented an old house-trailer out in the boonies, instead.
 
  • #4
It is important to make the distinction between those who wish to carry out home chemistry experiments in a responsible and controlled way (“citizen scientists” as this thread calls them), and those who merely use chemicals for their own illegal purposes (for example drug or bomb manufacturing). It is extremely frustrating to 'citizen scientists' to be immediately put under suspicion and / or be lumped in with methamphetamine makers as soon as this topic arises.

Home chemistry, or other science experimentation can be an extremely rewarding and educational hobby. Like many hobbies it does possesses a certain degree of risk when practiced irresponsibly but that alone should be not enough reason to suspect those who practice it of wrong doing or nefarious intentions.
 
  • #5
What kind of chemical study can one preform in one's own home? Most chemistry experiments require a minimum of equipment, of which one is often a fume hood. Unless experiments are conducted outside, I can see a problem if such experiments are carried out without a way to control, handle and dispose of the chemicals.
 
  • #6
Drug stores used to sell chemicals for chemistry experiments. ~1950 I occasionally would buy saltpeter, sulfur, and charcoal in the right ratios, mix it into a slurry (under water), and dry it in the sun. No more. How sad.
Bob S
 
  • #7
Obviously someone perusing chemistry experimentation as a hobby cannot engage in all the same activities as someone working in a professionally equipped research laboratory. Some experiments are impractical / impossible to perform on the 'hobby' scale due to various limitations, but that does not diminish the benefit, enjoyment, … to those who still pursue to the activity.

Some people who practice this activity can be quite resourceful and are able to acquire (purchase, make, improvise, …) a lot of the stuff one needs to perform various experiments.

You make a good point about the proper disposal of waste chemicals. I do not want to speculate about the behavior of all hobbyist, but I do know that legitimate ways do commonly exist to handle chemical waste of this nature. In many areas there exists 'hazardous waste disposal' facilities which people may take chemicals to be properly discarded. For example, there exists one of these facilities in my area which is run by the city and allows anyone to drop of any and all hazardous waste (such as old batteries, motor oil, paint, solvents, ….) free of charge. They take the waste and dispose of it properly so that it does not end up in the environment.

Also remember that not every hobbyist has access to (quote-unquote) 'dangerous' chemicals. Many hobbyists make due with what they can acquire over-the-counter from various household products. Not to say that these products do not contain chemicals which are totally benign, but it does place a certain limit on just how toxic some of the stuff can be.
 
  • #8
Scratchem said:
Chemists known as citizen chemists are everyday people who perform experiments to gain knowledge but do not work in a laboratory but rather have a kind of "home laboratory."

Ooookey. The only 'home chemists' I have known were interested in fireworks or drug synthesis. What is your interest?
 
  • #9
The comment about fireworks and drugs is all too honest. I guess a fair many of us fell in love with the idea of making rockets in school, but without proper tools, we didn't stand a chance of making anything decent.
I had a stretch of time electroplating (and later sputtering), but that leaves the question of how to properly dispose of the waste.

Now, my daughter has a friend that wanted access to a PCR machine and electrophoresis equipment. Not what you'd expect from a girl that's a sophomore in high school.

In any case, I worry that we'll squelch the inventiveness of youth by denying them access to materials. It's bad enough that they get sucked into wasting their time on PC's. How would the group feel if electronic parts are to be placed on the controlled list?

- Mike
 
  • #10
Most actions taken against home labs are typical case of throwing kid with a bath. This is sad. Even Mentors on PF are not free from prejudicion, I remember at least one, IMHO innocent and honest post about setting a home lab which was closed almost immediately for no reason other then "home labs are bad".
 
  • #11
I feel for these guys. Some if us have a natural inquisitiveness. My main love is designing and building electronics. I'd really hate to give up something that gives so much pleasure just because someone else perceives of a bad way to use it.

And, as to the amateur aspect, I've had well paying jobs, been a contributing member of society, and I owe this in part to what I learned doing my amateur work.

- Mike
 
  • #12
Mike_In_Plano said:
And, as to the amateur aspect, I've had well paying jobs, been a contributing member of society, and I owe this in part to what I learned doing my amateur work.
That is very true of me as well. I know that my home experimentation has taught me a great deal about chemistry and has directly befitted my research in 'real' academic laboratories. I even go so far as to include the activity (and especially the “outreach” aspects which has spun out of it) on my CV and fellowship applications. I have never received a negative reaction when discussing this activity with anyone in an academic research setting, but when talking with someone in the general public one must be more careful as one never knows if they will react with fear / suspicion, paranoia.

Borek said:
This is sad. Even Mentors on PF are not free from prejudicion, I remember at least one, IMHO innocent and honest post about setting a home lab which was closed almost immediately for no reason other then "home labs are bad".
This is, unfortunately, also very true and I think it is a poor way to run these, otherwise high quality, forums.
 
  • #13
I think this stems from public misconceptions of the nature of science as a whole. Most people think along the lines of, "if this person was smart enough to do real, valuable science, they would have a job in a 'real' lab and not need to do these things at home."

In high school I used to have an hour and a half of lab time each week, and having a strong interest in chemistry, naturally I experimented at home. Most of the things I did involved solubility and reactions in solution, using harmless chemicals I got from Wal Mart. In retrospect, most of the "don't blow up the house" jokes weren't jokes at all. This kind of issue is just one more reason for members of the scientific community to push for a greater public understanding of science.
 
  • #14
I got really interested in organic chem, but I was too scared to seek out the equipment necessary for conducting such experiments because I did not want to arouse suspicions related to illegal substance manufacture.
 
  • #15
You only have to read the rules of this forum which even forbid to discuss e.g. the synthesis of Iodine to understand this decline.
 
  • #16
DrDu said:
You only have to read the rules of this forum which even forbid to discuss e.g. the synthesis of Iodine to understand this decline.

That's not exactly problem with forums - iodine is listed in CFR, so we just play it safe. But in a way you are right.
 
  • #17
By chance, I came across an anecdote regarding the value of home experimentation. Charles Hall made the breakthrough which made the mass production of aluminum possible - while experimenting in a woodshed at his home.
- Mike
 
  • #18
There are numerous examples of people who experiment at home on their own and discover something significant (like in the Charles Hall case and refining aluminum), or whose experimentation gave them an early start in science and who later went onto become someone important in the science/tech industry.

Wired magazine has a very good article a few year ago about the decline of amateur science,
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.06/chemistry.html
 
  • #19
I started my home chemistry lab at the age of 10. By the time I was 18, I didn't do much with it anymore. I had a room in the basement of my parent's home, had quite a lot of glassware but didn't have anything like fume extraction or whatever. I didn't do anything special there, I just did experiments as they were described in simple lab manuals, and then did some variants on them, just for the fun of it. I had a few minor explosions with no harm. In fact, chemistry got me interested in science.
 
  • #20
Borek said:
That's not exactly problem with forums - iodine is listed in CFR, so we just play it safe. But in a way you are right.

huh ? :bugeye:

I did this several times as a kid. You could find it in kid's laboratory books!
 
  • #21
The problem is that Iodine is used in the reduction process in the preparation of extacy (MDMA). Hence iodine is a controlled substance. Therefore in most "free" nations there exist some McCarthyist laws which prosecute web pages where you can either buy this stuff without registration or which only provide help in obtaining it. Whether this really would include discussions of some kids about the synthesis of some grams of iodine may be doubted, but I understand that the physicsforums try to avoid to get sued. Strangely enough, as far as I understand it is perfectly legal at least in USA to discuss the synthesis of MDMA at length in a book.
What I wonder is why I am still allowed to buy gallons of gasoline without registering, given the immense potential damage by the Molotov cocktails you can prepare from it.
 
  • #23
@DrDu:

Well, there's gasoline lobbyists, but there aren't any iodine lobbyists. Get the connection?
 

1. Why is there a decline in amateur chemists?

There are several reasons for the decline in amateur chemists. One reason is the increased regulation and safety concerns surrounding chemicals and experiments. Another reason is the availability of more advanced technology and equipment, making it more difficult for amateurs to compete. Additionally, there is a shift towards more specialized fields of science, leaving less interest in amateur chemistry.

2. How does the decline of amateur chemists affect the field of chemistry?

The decline of amateur chemists has a significant impact on the field of chemistry. Amateur chemists have historically made important contributions to the field, and their decline means less diversity and creativity in the scientific community. It also means less public engagement and interest in chemistry, which could lead to a decrease in funding and support for the field.

3. What are the potential dangers of amateur chemistry?

Amateur chemistry can be dangerous due to the use of chemicals and lack of proper training and safety precautions. This can result in accidents and injuries, as well as potential harm to the environment. Without proper knowledge and understanding of chemical reactions, there is also a risk of creating hazardous substances or explosions.

4. Are there any benefits to amateur chemistry?

Yes, there are many benefits to amateur chemistry. Amateur chemists have made valuable contributions to the field, such as discovering new elements and compounds. They also bring a different perspective and creativity to experiments, leading to new discoveries and innovations. Additionally, amateur chemistry can help foster an interest in science and education in the general public.

5. How can we encourage more amateur chemists?

One way to encourage more amateur chemists is to provide safe and accessible spaces for experimentation, such as community labs or workshops. Providing education and resources on proper safety procedures and regulations can also help alleviate concerns and encourage more people to participate. Additionally, highlighting the contributions and impact of amateur chemists can inspire others to get involved in the field.

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