Vegan Restaurant: The Good & The Bad

[G01]

I went to a Vegan Restaurant today for lunch and ended up ordering hummus and some vegetable barley soup. It was really good, but most of the food on the menu creeped me out. Here are some of the items on the menu:

Ham and Cheese Sandwich

Buffalo Chicken Drumsticks

Cheesesteak

Turkey Melt

Anyone else noticing a problem??

I know that they are probably using imitation meat and whatnot, but it seems kinda silly to me. I guess I have a philosophical disagreement with this group of vegans on this matter.

If your selling vegan food don't you think you should work on making good tasting, openly vegan dishes instead of trying to imitate meat?

I'm not a vegan so I'll be happy to hear any vegan's opinion on this matter.

 

[turbo]

I went to a Vegan Restaurant today for lunch and ended up ordering hummus and some vegetable barley soup. It was really good, but most of the food on the menu creeped me out. Here are some of the items on the menu:

Ham and Cheese Sandwich

Buffalo Chicken Drumsticks

Cheesesteak

Turkey Melt

Anyone else noticing a problem??

I know that they are probably using imitation meat and whatnot, but it seems kinda silly to me. I guess I have a philosophical disagreement with this group of vegans on this matter.

If your selling vegan food don't you think you should work on making good tasting, openly vegan dishes instead of trying to imitate meat?

I'm not a vegan so I'll be happy to hear any vegan's opinion on this matter.

I'm not a vegan, either, but I have the same conceptual problem that you do. I have a vegan neighbor and he grills up "sausages" made of soy protein. I can see not wanting to eat meat, but not wanting to eat meat while pretending to eat meat is a bit silly.

There are lots of times when I make vegetable dishes, not because I don't eat meat, but because they can taste really good. Lentil soup, black bean dip, barley-and-bean soup, etc, etc. Why have fake stuff on the menu when you can serve curried rice, and other stuff that tastes great? I've made some great-tasting wraps from soft flour tortillas, home-made black bean dip, vegetables, and my home-made salsa. Low-fat tasty and very healthy for you.

 

[mgb_phys]

Like the Linda McCartney stuff in supermarkets. Recreates the authentic taste of discount supermarket frozen burgers without meat - what an acheivement.

Maybe the other way round could work? New improved cattle feed - looks and tastes just like cow feed but is made from diseased sheep brains. What could go wrong?

 

[Evo]

It's like the "meatless chicken" frozen dinner my friend bought. What is "meatless chicken", is it just the bones?

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Ham and Cheese Sandwich
Buffalo Chicken Drumsticks
Cheesesteak
Turkey Melt

What do you know, it turns out I'm a vegan.

 

[turbo]

It's like the "meatless chicken" frozen dinner my friend bought. What is "meatless chicken", is it just the bones?

"No chickens were harmed in the preparation of this meal."

just poor innocent soybeans that CAN'T run away...

 

[matthyaouw]

One of my favourite places to eat is a vegetarian place, even though I'm not vegetarian. They do some excellent dishes using no meat sustitutes at all, but do include some fake meat in some of their stuff. I guess they have to listen to what their customers want, and if they like fake meat that's what they'll buy.
Why do you guys disagree with vegans eating meat substitutes?

 

[turbo]

Why do you guys disagree with vegans eating meat substitutes?

It's not a "disagreement" IMO, just a logical disconnect. Why eat some heavily-processed ersatz meat, when you can have really good dishes made from minimally-processed vegetables. I don't get the attraction. Dishes made from rice, beans, onions, potatoes, grains, etc can be wonderful, so why adulterate them with processed food products?

 

[Evo]

Who is having a tofurkey for Thanksgiving?

 

[G01]

It's not that I disagree with vegans eating fake meat. They can do what they want. What I mean is that the fake meat turns me off of veganism. It makes veganism less attractive to me. I'd rather my meals be open about not containing meat, rather than trying to replace meat with tofu. I think the fake meat actually takes away from many vegan dishes.

 

[G01]

Who is having a tofurkey for Thanksgiving?

:yuck::yuck::yuck:

 

[Danger]

Why eat some heavily-processed ersatz meat, when you can have really good dishes made from minimally-processed vegetables

More importantly, why eat some heavily-processed ersatz meat, when you can have meat?

 

[GCT]

It's not that I disagree with vegans eating fake meat. They can do what they want. What I mean is that the fake meat turns me off of veganism. It makes veganism less attractive to me. I'd rather my meals be open about not containing meat, rather than trying to replace meat with tofu. I think the fake meat actually takes away from many vegan dishes.

Vegetarians need fake meat - all of those commercials about cheesestakes - nothing to kill that temptation like a good vegetarian cheesestake hmmm ... :yuck:

 

[mgb_phys]

Now if you could make veggie bacon sandwiches that tasted like the real thing - you could really cleanup.

 

[GCT]

Now if you could make veggie bacon sandwiches that tasted like the real thing - you could really cleanup.

I guess that is one of the principles of veganism - if we could have veggie bacon register in our brain as real bacon - humans would not need to kill. Yes we would all be dispelled of the brainwashing that humans need meat.

We would then collectively proceed to contract all types of diseases and become emaciated as well as unhappy.

I've had friends who were vegetarians and they were always unhappily searching for novel types of foods. They were really creative at conjuring up new dishes.

 

[Proton Soup]

ugh, veganism creeps me out. veganism is unhealthy and should only be practiced by consenting adults lacking reproductive capacity. if i hear of one more story of neurologically damaged babies from vegan mothers...

 

[turbo]

I've had friends who were vegetarians and they were always unhappily searching for novel types of foods. They were really creative at conjuring up new dishes.

My vegan neighbor is heavily reliant on my chili relishes, salsas, etc, to make his tofu dogs and tofu sausages palatable. That's OK, because he is generous with his fruits and vegetables, and got me established as a garlic-grower.

 

[mgb_phys]

I guess that is one of the principles of veganism - if we could have veggie bacon register in our brain as real bacon - humans would not need to kill. Yes we would all be dispelled of the brainwashing that humans need meat.

I'm mostly veggie for the same reason as Turbo said - why have curry made from bland textureless and tasteless factory chicken when you can make much nicer vegetable curry.

Apparently the bacon sandwich is known as 'vegetarian kryptonite' - you have to be a pretty committed vegetarian to resist !

 

[Ms Music]

ugh, veganism creeps me out. veganism is unhealthy and should only be practiced by consenting adults lacking reproductive capacity. if i hear of one more story of neurologically damaged babies from vegan mothers...

Does this really happen? I have known many vegans, but none that have been in "child bearing years".

 

[mgb_phys]

Does this really happen? I have known many vegans, but none that have been in "child bearing years".

If you are breast feeding and vegan you should take B12 supplements (if you are vegan you probably want to take B12 anyway).
On the other hand if you are veggie you are probably stocked to the eyeballs with folic acid which is also important.

Given the choice of vegan mother who breastfeeds and feeds them fresh fruit and veg and a 'normal' mother that gives the kids formula and then fast food for the next 18years - I know where my health concerns would be.

 

[lisab]

If you are breast feeding and vegan you should take B12 supplements (if you are vegan you probably want to take B12 anyway).
On the other hand if you are veggie you are probably stocked to the eyeballs with folic acid which is also important.

Given the choice of vegan mother who breastfeeds and foods them fresh fruit and veg and a 'normal' mother that gives the kids formula and then fast food for the next 18years - I know where my health concerns woudl be.

Well I would guess that vegans would want their children to be vegan also, and wouldn't breast milk be a non-vegan food :tongue2: ?

 

[Moonbear]

I can see not wanting to eat meat, but not wanting to eat meat while pretending to eat meat is a bit silly.

Bingo! This is my problem with the fake-meat too. It's like they're not really committed to veganism, just faking it, by trying to eat fake meat. To me, it says, "Vegan food is unappetizing, so we try to pretend it's meat." Instead, if they promoted it for what it is, it would probably sound more appealing.

I refuse to even try the vegetarian meatloaf that our cafeteria serves, simply on principle (it scares me...I keep wondering if vegetarian meat comes from vegetarians...maybe that's how they hide the malpractice cases! ). If they called it, "Vegetable Loaf," I might just try it. I don't need to eat meat at every meal, so I'm perfectly happy to try some vegetarian dishes for lunch, especially if they might be a bit lighter in calories than the meat options that day, but I just cannot make myself even try "Vegetarian Meatloaf." It's not like we're all 6 years old and need to be tricked into eating our vegetables.

 

[turbo]

I refuse to even try the vegetarian meatloaf that our cafeteria serves, simply on principle (it scares me...I keep wondering if vegetarian meat comes from vegetarians...maybe that's how they hide the malpractice cases! ).

Eat it, Moonie! You could be a true humanitarian!

 

[Moonbear]

Eat it, Moonie! You could be a true humanitarian!

:rofl: <<<<<GROAN>>>>> :rofl:

 

[Proton Soup]

If you are breast feeding and vegan you should take B12 supplements (if you are vegan you probably want to take B12 anyway).
On the other hand if you are veggie you are probably stocked to the eyeballs with folic acid which is also important.

Given the choice of vegan mother who breastfeeds and feeds them fresh fruit and veg and a 'normal' mother that gives the kids formula and then fast food for the next 18years - I know where my health concerns would be.

yes. and even when they think they're doing the right thing and taking supplements, they still fail. i can see why. long term deficiency depletes liver stores.

i also think it's going to be difficult for vegans to do well wrt to zinc, iron, choline, DHA, etc. humans are not designed to eat that way. we need our veggies, but we also need eggs, fish, and lean red meat. some wealthy and highly educated people may be able to make it work, but it's very difficult. it certainly doesn't make sound policy for the general population.

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/289/8/979

Neurologic Impairment in Children Associated With Maternal Dietary Deficiency of Cobalamin—Georgia, 2001

JAMA. 2003;289:979-980.

MMWR. 2003;52:61-64

2 tables omitted

During 2001, neurologic impairment resulting from cobalamin (vitamin B12) deficiency was diagnosed in two children in Georgia. The children were breastfed by mothers who followed vegetarian diets.* This report summarizes the two cases and provides guidance for health-care providers on identifying and preventing cobalamin deficiency among breastfed infants of vegetarian mothers.


Case 1

During August 2001, a girl aged 15 months was hospitalized for lethargy and failure to thrive. She was born after a full-term pregnancy complicated by prolonged nausea and vomiting. She was breastfed for 8 months, but the extent (exclusivity) of breast milk consumed relative to other food was unknown. Her mother reported following a vegan diet during the preceding 7 years and took nutritional and vitamin supplements. The cobalamin content of the supplements was unknown. When the child was aged approximately 8 months, organic whole-grain cereals and fruit shakes were introduced, but she had a poor appetite and vomited regularly. Her parents became concerned about her growth and development, and she was evaluated by a pediatrician at age 15 months. The pediatrician diagnosed failure to thrive, developmental delay, and severe macrocytic anemia. The child was hospitalized, and cobalamin deficiency was diagnosed (marked elevation [not quantified] of urine methylmalonic acid; serum B12:100 pg/mL [normal range: 210-911 pg/mL]).

The child received supplementary food by mouth and by nasogastric tube. She also received 2 mg of cyanocobalamin and 3 mg of hydroxocobalamin intramuscularly (IM) over 3 days. Three days later, she had partial complex seizures, which stopped without anticonvulsants. A brain MRI indicated global cerebral atrophy. The mother was treated with 1 mg of cobalamin IM.

At age 16 months, the child was seen in a genetics clinic to eliminate possible genetic causes of her neurologic deficiency. At age 28 months, her developmental skills ranged from 9 months for fine motor skills to 18 months for gross motor skills. Her expressive language was at 10 months, and her receptive language was at 12 months. At age 32 months, she had made developmental progress but continued to have developmental delays, especially in speech and language. She was prescribed daily sublingual cobalamin supplements.

 

[Evo]

Vegan is just not a normal, healthy diet. When your diet doesn't provide your body with what it needs and you have to rely on supplements, what does that say? I personally would never let a child or teenager go on a vegan diet, their bodies are growing and depend too much on a well balanced diet. Putting a pet on a vegan diet is just criminal.

 

[mgb_phys]

Putting a pet on a vegan diet is just criminal.

 

[Proton Soup]

:rofl:

 

[Evo]

See what can happen??

"It's a killer!"

 

[CaptainQuasar]

ugh, veganism creeps me out. veganism is unhealthy and should only be practiced by consenting adults lacking reproductive capacity.

Wait, that implies that there are non-consenting adults forced into veganism. Is there some cult I don't know about? http://www.runemasterstudios.com/graemlins/images/lol.gif

(Just kidding, I know you were talking about children.)

⚛​

 

[G01]

Putting a pet on a vegan diet is just criminal.

Does this really happen?!

How dumb do you have to be have a carnivorous animal as a pet and try to feed it only vegetables?

 

[mgb_phys]

How dumb do you have to be have a carnivorous animal as a pet and try to feed it only vegetables?

How dumb do you have to be to put nutrasweet in your humming bird feeder!

Dogs are omnivores - you can safely feed dogs veggie dog food which has all the extra vitamins etc.
Cats are much easier, you can feed cats vegetarian food and they will simply ignore it and go and get fed at a neighbour's house!

 

[Proton Soup]

How dumb do you have to be to put nutrasweet in your humming bird feeder!

Dogs are omnivores - you can safely feed dogs veggie dog food which has all the extra vitamins etc.
Cats are much easier, you can feed cats vegetarian food and they will simply ignore it and go and get fed at a neighbour's house!

quite a bit of catfood does seem to be vegetable crap, now. it's like some kind of soggy dumplings in a protein gravy.

 

[CaptainQuasar]

quite a bit of catfood does seem to be vegetable crap, now. it's like some kind of soggy dumplings in a protein gravy.

A "Protein Soup", as it were?

⚛​

 

[wolram]

In the UK one can be a reluctant vegi, just buy steak and onion pies or any (meat) pie or sausages.