Electrical Engineering student

[╔(σ_σ)╝]

This is kind of a career/academic guidance topic so I am not sure where to put it. I guess it should be fine here ?!

My dilema is the following...

I am an Electrical Engineering student, I never really loved EE but went into it because my parents and I thought it would be a better career option than Math. I obviously regret my decision from time to time seeing as math is more fun than engineering. Especially on those days when I am stuck in a microprocessors lab for hours try to get "hello" to show up on my LCD.

Something recently changed for me though. I was offered a position in an engineering company which is offering my $1k+ /week ( only God knows why they want to pay me so much for nothing ). I am current a Ugrad ( 3rd Year) so this is going to be a summer job for me with the option of extending it to 16 months.

I was thinking the other day ( dangerous ;)) that if I could get paid this much right now how about when I graduate ? And what is the point of grad school ? I always thought not not going to grad school was a bad idea ? (University Commercialism !)

I always wanted to teach. My "dream" has been to be a professor but haven read a lot of stories about how difficult it is to get a tenure track position, it seems that pursuing that dream is a waste of time.

I was never one who loved money, however, my greed has been surfacing lately. If I were to go get a job right after Ugrad in that power company I would be 20 years old earning $70k/per ( this is particularly a weaking point for me). I keep wondering why I should spend another 6 years plus 3years post doc trying to get a phd and MAYBE a tenure track position.

By that time ,it seems, I could have risen up in the ranks of the company and would probably be on my way to a high paying career in the power industry. Which is known to be a pretty stable industry at the moment.

I like academia, I like learning math and interesting things in general. I doubt I would have as much personal fulfilment in the power industry as I would in academia. But then again, it seems that academia is just a huge game of chance and luck. Granted, there are a few people who get where they are by their hardwork but even thoes people have had some measure of luck getting where they are.

Not to mention that, from my experience , professors seem like glorified, stressed workers trying to keep their labs open. From what I have seen a lot of the research is done by Grad students while the professors are looking for money to fund the projects. I have known a professor in Engineering who changed/adjusted his focus of research simply to get external support from the industry.

Does anyone here have any personal experiences that is similar to mine ? What did you pick, academia or industry ?

I have shortened this post to make it more digestible. :)

 

[Jokerhelper]

You might want to put in a title for the thread.

 

[anubis01]

I was never one who loved money, however, my greed has been surfacing lately. If I were to go get a job right after Ugrad in that power company I would be 20 years old earning $70k/per ( this is particularly a weaking point for me). I keep wondering why I should spend another 6 years plus 3years post doc trying to get a phd and MAYBE a tenure track position.

I certainly wouldn't call this greed, you would be establishing a career for yourself with great pay at an early age, its not like your some high school kid that left school for a quick buck.

I think its important to recognize whether you would enjoy being a professor or if you just like the idea of being one.

I think the best thing you can do is just work for the company for now, and depending on how you like the environment you can make a decision from there.

 

[Reshma]

I always wanted to teach. My "dream" has been to be a professor but haven read a lot of stories about how difficult it is to get a tenure track position, it seems that pursuing that dream is a waste of time.

Since you are still an undergraduate, I think it is quite premature to make that conclusion. There is nothing wrong in having multiple interests at this level. You can choose to do graduate studies even after working for a few years after undergrad studies.

By that time ,it seems, I could have risen up in the ranks of the company and would probably be on my way to a high paying career in the power industry. Which is known to be a pretty stable industry at the moment.

I partly disagree with that. Most industries do prefer to hire people with MS or PhD for senior scientist/engineer level positions. But I am not sure whether someone with an undergrad degree and 5 years of experience can still reach that position.

BTW, I like your username

 

[╔(σ_σ)╝]

You might want to put in a title for the thread.

;)

I think its important to recognize whether you would enjoy being a professor or if you just like the idea of being one.

You make a very very good point here.

I think the best thing you can do is just work for the company for now, and depending on how you like the environment you can make a decision from there.

Intend to work there this summer. I'll see how much I like it and if it is something I would like to return to.

Since you are still an undergraduate, I think it is quite premature to make that conclusion. There is nothing wrong in having multiple interests at this level. You can choose to do graduate studies even after working for a few years after undergrad studies.

I thought about that but I was of the opinion that I would have forgotten much of my undergraduate training by then.

I partly disagree with that. Most industries do prefer to hire people with MS or PhD for senior scientist/engineer level positions. But I am not sure whether someone with an undergrad degree and 5 years of experience can still reach that position.

This is also a very good point. I do realize that getting into really high positions ( president , vp etc) in comapnies require at list a PhD or an MBA.

However, most of the managers in the company I was referring to only have BEng or BAs.

As I mentioned in the outset, I always thought not getting a Masters in Engineering was a bad idea since "everyone" has a BEng.

Should I find out if the company provides financial support for students who want to do an MEng or MAS ?

BTW, I like your username

;)

 

[D H]

Something recently changed for me though. I was offered a position in an engineering company which is offering my $1k+ /week ( only God knows why they want to pay me so much for nothing ). I am current a Ugrad ( 3rd Year) so this is going to be a summer job for me with the option of extending it to 16 months.

Congrats on the internship, particularly in this tough economy.

Regarding the parenthetical remark only God knows why they want to pay me so much for nothing: Good that you recognize your contributions will be minimal. In fact, you may well be an economic drain on the company. People are going to have to take time to orient you to how the company works. Someone who contributes to the bottom line is going to have to take time away from contributing to the bottom line to mentor you.

So why do companies and other organizations have internships?

• It is the honorable thing to do. They are paying a self-perceived debt to society.
• It is a sneaky thing to do. You should perceive that 10-12 week internship as an extended job interview. They want to see if you are worthy of hiring full time, and maybe even paying your way through grad school. How quick are you mentally? Are you an ethical person? Do you get along with people? Do you "fit" in with the company? Could you eventually contribute to the bottom line? They will keep notes.
• It is a cheap thing to do. Suppose you turn out to be a complete mistake. The $10K or so they spent to find that out is but a pittance compared to the cost of finding out that a person hired as a full-time employee was a complete mistake. On the other hand, suppose that you turn out to be utterly fantastic. That $10K investment was worth every penny, and then some.
• It is a smart thing to do. Companies compete to hire the top graduates. Giving the top students an internship position is a proven technique to attract those top grads.

I was thinking the other day ( dangerous ;)) that if I could get paid this much right now how about when I graduate ? And what is the point of grad school ? I always thought not not going to grad school was a bad idea ? (University Commercialism !)

That is dangerous thinking nowadays. A masters degree is the new bachelors degree. Stop with just a bachelors degree and you will see people with less experience getting the promotions you think should be coming to you.

Some options:
1. Continue with the internship / going to school routine after you get your bachelors degree. Most companies pay grad school interns at the same rate as freshouts with a bachelors. You might well receive a decent pay increase for your grad school internships. That said, you should not feel that you have any obligation to return to that company for your next internship. Go back if you like the place and you see a benefit in doing so. As I mentioned, one way to look at internships is that they are an extended interview. Job interviews go both ways. The company's perspective: Do they want to hire you? Your perspective: Do you want to work for them? That is one of the questions you should be asking yourself during your internships.

2. An option to the internship / school route is to take a full time position and go to school part time. Most technical firms do reimburse their employees who continue their education. That said, this can be a very difficult proposition. It takes a lot longer than the internship / full time student route, and many schools go out of their way to make it darn near impossible.

3. A third alternative is to finagle the company into paying your way through school as a full time student. Not many employers do this, but it does happen.

 

[Reshma]

I thought about that but I was of the opinion that I would have forgotten much of my undergraduate training by then.

I agree with that. It also depends where you pursue your graduate. In India (where I live), graduate studies in Engineering in top tier institutes require passing an entrance exam which tests the concepts of your undergraduate degree. In US, apart from pure science graduate programmes like Physics, Mathematics (which require subject GRE), engineering graduate schools only require the general GRE which tests high school math level. Don't know how things in other countries work though...anyway it is still a good idea to keep in touch with your undergraduate studies.

This is also a very good point. I do realize that getting into really high positions ( president , vp etc) in comapnies require at list a PhD or an MBA.

However, most of the managers in the company I was referring to only have BEng or BAs.

As I mentioned in the outset, I always thought not getting a Masters in Engineering was a bad idea since "everyone" has a BEng.

Should I find out if the company provides financial support for students who want to do an MEng or MAS ?

Right now, focus on maintaining good grades and utilise all opportunities that you get to obtain real-world engineering experience. Also it will be a major plus point when applying to graduate positions or engineering jobs after graduation.

 

[╔(σ_σ)╝]

Congrats on the internship, particularly in this tough economy.

Regarding the parenthetical remark only God knows why they want to pay me so much for nothing: Good that you recognize your contributions will be minimal. In fact, you may well be an economic drain on the company. People are going to have to take time to orient you to how the company works. Someone who contributes to the bottom line is going to have to take time away from contributing to the bottom line to mentor you.

So why do companies and other organizations have internships?

• It is the honorable thing to do. They are paying a self-perceived debt to society.
• It is a sneaky thing to do. You should perceive that 10-12 week internship as an extended job interview. They want to see if you are worthy of hiring full time, and maybe even paying your way through grad school. How quick are you mentally? Are you an ethical person? Do you get along with people? Do you "fit" in with the company? Could you eventually contribute to the bottom line? They will keep notes.
• It is a cheap thing to do. Suppose you turn out to be a complete mistake. The $10K or so they spent to find that out is but a pittance compared to the cost of finding out that a person hired as a full-time employee was a complete mistake. On the other hand, suppose that you turn out to be utterly fantastic. That $10K investment was worth every penny, and then some.
• It is a smart thing to do. Companies compete to hire the top graduates. Giving the top students an internship position is a proven technique to attract those top grads.

Nice explanation. But it seems like these companies are losing a lot of money. My next question is exactly where the money comes from?

Actually, I think I have an idea... my hydro bill was raised recently. :rolleyes

That is dangerous thinking nowadays. A masters degree is the new bachelors degree. Stop with just a bachelors degree and you will see people with less experience getting the promotions you think should be coming to you.

Yeah, I noticed this to be the case.
I guess I should go for a masters anyway then decide if I want to go further later on.

Some options:
1. Continue with the internship / going to school routine after you get your bachelors degree. Most companies pay grad school interns at the same rate as freshouts with a bachelors. You might well receive a decent pay increase for your grad school internships. That said, you should not feel that you have any obligation to return to that company for your next internship. Go back if you like the place and you see a benefit in doing so. As I mentioned, one way to look at internships is that they are an extended interview. Job interviews go both ways. The company's perspective: Do they want to hire you? Your perspective: Do you want to work for them? That is one of the questions you should be asking yourself during your internships.

2. An option to the internship / school route is to take a full time position and go to school part time. Most technical firms do reimburse their employees who continue their education. That said, this can be a very difficult proposition. It takes a lot longer than the internship / full time student route, and many schools go out of their way to make it darn near impossible.

3. A third alternative is to finagle the company into paying your way through school as a full time student. Not many employers do this, but it does happen.

I spoke to a former student who works in the company and he apparently was able to get the company to pay for his master :woot!

So option 3 seems like a very good choice.

If the company does pay for my education I would feel quilty if I do not return back.

And to be honest, I do not see the power industry as a particularly stimulating and or academically driven industry.

I would like to continue in some sort of academic field not just maintaining some poles that carry current.

I agree with that. It also depends where you pursue your graduate. In India (where I live), graduate studies in Engineering in top tier institutes require passing an entrance exam which tests the concepts of your undergraduate degree. In US, apart from pure science graduate programmes like Physics, Mathematics (which require subject GRE), engineering graduate schools only require the general GRE which tests high school math level. Don't know how things in other countries work though...anyway it is still a good idea to keep in touch with your undergraduate studies. Right now, focus on maintaining good grades and utilise all opportunities that you get to obtain real-world engineering experience. Also it will be a major plus point when applying to graduate positions or engineering jobs after graduation.

I am in Canada so I don't need GRE.

I am just worried that once I leave school I would lose my "student" routine.