Force on conductor carrying currentsurrounded by solid magnetic material

In summary, the force on a current carrying conductor will be highest in a magnetic material with no shielding or current switching.
  • #1
djsourabh
69
0
i want to compare force on current carrying conductor ,
1)placed in air surrounded by magnetic field
2)placed in the cylindrical cavity(without air gap but some electrical insulation) which is placed in magnetic field.
please give me practically calculated answers with calculations.
 
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  • #2
djsourabh said:
i want to compare force on current carrying conductor ,
1)placed in air surrounded by magnetic field
2)placed in the cylindrical cavity(without air gap but some electrical insulation) which is placed in magnetic field.
please give me practically calculated answers with calculations.

Well, do you know the equation to use for your case #1? It's a common equation:

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/magnetic/forwir2.html

And for your case #2, could you maybe clarify a bit about the geometry? Is there some application that you have in mind? I think I know the answer, but need a few more details before commenting about the force for case #2...
 
  • #3
berkeman said:
Well, do you know the equation to use for your case #1? It's a common equation:

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/magnetic/forwir2.html

And for your case #2, could you maybe clarify a bit about the geometry? Is there some application that you have in mind? I think I know the answer, but need a few more details before commenting about the force for case #2...

i meant ,how much times is the force for case 2 that of case 1?
 
  • #4
djsourabh said:
i meant ,how much times is the force for case 2 that of case 1?

Negative infinity (or zero, depending on how you write the fraction) most likely. But that's why I asked for more information about the configuration of case #2. Can you provided a sketch?

What is the context of your question? Is it a thought experiment, something for schoolwork, or somthing that you want to build and test?
 
  • #5
i want to build & test it.
can you provide mathematical or logical explanation for your answer ?
take sketch as
there are 2 poles of magnet separated by a distance.in between them space is filled by magnetic material .
it contains cavity having conductor carrying current.
can you give me the formula and practical answer for above scenario?
what are values of relative permeabilities for magnetic materials?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #6
djsourabh said:
i want to build & test it.
can you provide mathematical or logical explanation for your answer ?
take sketch as
there are 2 poles of magnet separated by a distance.in between them space is filled by magnetic material .
it contains cavity having conductor carrying current.
can you give me the formula and practical answer for above scenario?
what are values of relative permeabilities for magnetic materials?

(Please do not use text speak like "u" and "ur" here on the PF. It is against the rules. I have fixed up your post above).

The cavity in the magnetic material is shielded from the external B-field. That's what magnetic materials do -- they concentrate and divert magnetic fields. So the wire in the cavity will experience very little or zero magnetic field, and there will be a correspondingly small force on it.
 
  • #8
ZenonDorin said:
My new electric motor is based on exactly this thing (part of the coil is in the cavity of a permalloy).

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=663657

I skimmed the video, but was not able to quite understand what is going on (I'm at work and cannot spend much time viewing it). Is there supposed to be audio that goes with the video?

But if you have permalloy surrounding some of your wires, they will not have much force applied to them because of the shielding effect.
 
  • #9
berkeman said:
I skimmed the video, but was not able to quite understand what is going on (I'm at work and cannot spend much time viewing it). Is there supposed to be audio that goes with the video?

But if you have permalloy surrounding some of your wires, they will not have much force applied to them because of the shielding effect.

Yes, you cannot understand without audio.

That's the key. On a certain portion there must be no electromagnetic force, else the integral of force on the entire coil would be 0.

No matter how you place the magnet or the coil, without such shielding or without current switching (with an electronic speed controller or brushes), there can't be any continuous rotation which is required in an electric motor.
 
  • #10
so, in which material medium the force on current carrying conductor will be highest?
(consider above configuration)
 

1. What is the force on a conductor carrying current surrounded by solid magnetic material?

The force on a conductor carrying current surrounded by solid magnetic material is dependent on a few factors, including the strength of the magnetic field, the current in the conductor, and the length of the conductor. This force is known as the Lorentz force, and can be calculated using the formula F = I * L * B, where I is the current, L is the length of the conductor, and B is the magnetic field strength.

2. How does the direction of the force on the conductor change with the direction of the current and magnetic field?

The direction of the force on the conductor is determined by the right-hand rule. If you point your thumb in the direction of the current and your fingers in the direction of the magnetic field, the force will be perpendicular to both and will point in the direction that your palm is facing.

3. What happens to the force on the conductor when the magnetic field strength increases?

As the magnetic field strength increases, the force on the conductor also increases. This is because the force is directly proportional to the magnetic field strength, as seen in the formula F = I * L * B.

4. How does the presence of solid magnetic material affect the force on the conductor?

The presence of solid magnetic material can increase the force on the conductor. This is because the magnetic material can amplify the magnetic field and therefore increase the force on the conductor. However, the force can also be reduced if the magnetic material creates a barrier between the conductor and the magnetic field.

5. Is there a limit to the force that can be exerted on the conductor?

Yes, there is a limit to the force that can be exerted on the conductor. This limit is determined by the maximum current that can flow through the conductor and the maximum magnetic field strength that can be generated. If either of these limits is reached, the force on the conductor will not increase any further.

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