Autsim -many people does not care

[Spirit]

Hey,

I have read many articles regarding Autism but I think i have not grasp even its basics in an excellent way.

I wonder: Does individuals with Autism really 'do not care' about others since they don't interact with other people as more than 'objects' or a bit more than objects. Some articles i read did claim this in a way or in another. However; I found in the new society there TONS of individuals who don't consider others, and commit crimes, wether it be in the battlefields or in the offices in politics or that fight with a younger boy after school.

Thx in advance for help, truly appreciated

 

[Evo]

Some articles i read did claim this in a way or in another. However; I found in the new society there TONS of individuals who don't consider others, and commit crimes, wether it be in the battlefields or in the offices in politics or that fight with a younger boy after school.

I seriously doubt that someone holding political office or a soldier or a school yard bully would suffer from autism.

I suggest you read this to understand better. http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/autism.cfm

 

[alias25]

I get really emotional attached to object a lot it causes a lot of stress sometimes when no one seems to understand people think I am selfish sometimes, if somethings mine i want to keep it forever..guess I am very sentimental, most objects have very deep meaning too me even the most randomest thing, an everyday object. i guess i can understand why autistic people may have unusual attachments to objects and as for not interacting with people possibly because theyre afraid of getting hurt? because they are in fact very emotional and care about people so feel vunrable and afraid, these are only my opinions.
is autism genetic?

 

[Kurdt]

i guess i can understand why autistic people may have unusual attachments to objects and as for not interacting with people possibly because theyre afraid of getting hurt? because they are in fact very emotional and care about people so feel vunrable and afraid, these are only my opinions.
is autism genetic?

People with autism are not afraid of getting hurt by interaction with others. They have problems understanding other people as they can't recognise subtelties of body language and in more severe cases have poor spoken and listening language skills. And in response to the OP, it is not that people with autism do not care they merely find it as difficult to express themselves effectively as they do in understanding.

There is some evidence to suggest autism is genetic but I suggest you visit the link that Evo provided if you are curious.

 

[arildno]

Since the theory of autism has been developed by non-autists, the subjective, experential aspects of being autistic is a mere conjecture from the side of non-autists.
Thus, that part of the theory is of no scientific weight.

Descriptions of how autists interacts with other, however, may be of great value.

 

[J77]

There was a recent bbc story into how common the condition is: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/5174144.stm

However, some trouble with making a condition common is that, for example, people who are slower to learn may get "put on the spectrum" when other diagnoses may apply.

A bit like how all badly behaved kids these days must have ADHD.

And back to the OP, I don't think it's quite as simple as "interacting with people as objects". Like you say, it's hard to grasp. Mainly because of the broad spectrum...

But I still think that such a spectrum shouldn't grow to enable a diagnosis of shy, retiring people as autistic.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

My son is autistic. As indicated in the article linked to by Evo, we were aware of the problem almost from birth, but it was not diagnosed until he was nearly 3 years old. We were advised to look into the possibility as the result of bringing him for a hearing test. We went through various stages of denial until this past year with him at the age of 12.

It is rather difficult to describe exactly what is different about my son. He is personable, makes eye contact, is intelligent (though not a savant like Rainman), is aware of everything that goes on around him, cares intensely about his family and about what others think of him. These traits are what got in the way of our accepting the diagnosis. And yet we have always known that there is something about him that is going to be one of the central issues of his life forever. It's not as easy to put your finger on it as you may have been lead to believe.

Through my son, I have met many other autistic children. They run a wide spectrum of behaviors and problems. Contrary to the image of a flat personality, I find these children to exhibit as wide a range as any group that size.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

I seriously doubt that someone holding political office or a soldier or a school yard bully would suffer from autism.

I see no reason why not. I know of one young man who while not a bully is certainly bossy and overbearing.

Edit: Removed comments concerning Bill Gates. I doubt that he actually suffers from Asperger's.

 

[Kurdt]

There are many people in positions of authority that have been described as exhibiting symptoms of aspergers which is a relatively mild version of autism (at the bottom of the spectrum if you will). Certainly many who tend to exhibit what would be termed as eccentric behaviour get chalked up as having aspergers. How many of them actually do is not known to me and I'm not sure if there is an 'official' list of these people.

Anyway the point being its all about perceptions and when many people think of autism they think of the rainman film or more recently A Beautiful Mind.

 

[Mickey]

I'd like to see anyone watch this news story and try to claim that autistic individuals don't care about others.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-818944862742874918&q=autistic

 

[GCT]

There is one aspect that distinctively separates autistic children from all others...they lack a component of awareness; and it isn't too excessive to say that they have been deprived of consciousness, but perhaps not core consciousness.

There isn't too much of a problem with recognition, some have normal and even superior IQs, however it's almost as if they have much briefer periods of consciousness, or it's somehow relatively more intermitten. Extended consciousness is the main problem, it's a problem with integration of information for longer periods of time such as to suffice the world to become "real."

I've recently read upon some interesting research conducted by Dr. Geier, who is a respected scientist (MD) in his field, that is until recently when he started administering Lupron to Autistic children with the belief that it is testosterone which exacerbates the effects of mercury, which in some cases is believed to be the main etiological factor for autistic symptoms. I've talked with him briefly over email and it seems from some of the information he had sent me, and I haven't been able to understand whether he believes in any of the direct effects of testosterone on the brain, such as those that relate to the recent male brain hypothesis. I can somewhat see how the latter premise can directly contribute to autistic symptoms.

Imagine if you had the same hormonal influences at the age of 7 as when most of you probably went through such maturation during the normal age span...12-teens. Although Lupron is adminstered to castrate offenders it is also employed to treat precocious puberty. Not only are the physical changes brought on early, the mental effects are also onset, the testosterone levels are way higher then what is normal for these children's age (multiple times higher, I'm not quite sure if I can quote the source at this time, since the article copy he had given me ask that I not distribute it, so it seems that he has not published it fully at the moment). So a lot of these children spend most of their time masturbating (and after the eventual build up of irritation, proceed to endanger themselves in many ways, it's quite sad really) while they should be socializing and opening up to the world.

 

[Kurdt]

So basically this guy is saying the early release of testosterone has an effect on the brain of a child that causes the child to display autistic symptoms as the brain was not correctly prepared for the 'chemical assault' of testosterone at that age? Does he also say that the degree of autism depends on how much exposure the brain had? Hmm. I might be open to the testosterone theory but I'm not sure what masturbation has to do with it.

Anyway it would also explain why boys tend to have more autistic traits than girls I suppose.

 

[arildno]

It seems to me that these kids use masturbation as the most accessible form of self-healing (immediate tension-release).

That this alienates further from the "real world" and hence a continual build-up of frustration that must be released again is really saddening.

As I see it, what must be thought out and (taught them?) are other, more constructive and lasting forms of (self-)healing than masturbation.

 

[Kurdt]

Do not normal kids when they go through puberty masturbate? I don't get why it should be linked with autism or autistic traits (other than the fact that they have perhaps started puberty sooner).

 

[selfAdjoint]

Do not normal kids when they go through puberty masturbate? I don't get why it should be linked with autism or autistic traits (other than the fact that they have perhaps started puberty sooner).

For boys the old rule was "9 out of 10 guys masturbate and the tenth guy is a liar." Exceptions might be very unsocialized guys who just never realized - and never had any opportunity to learn - that it could be done. That would delay onset of masturbation a year or two.

 

[Kurdt]

For boys the old rule was "9 out of 10 guys masturbate and the tenth guy is a liar." Exceptions might be very unsocialized guys who just never realized - and never had any opportunity to learn - that it could be done. That would delay onset of masturbation a year or two.

Well that proves my point that most do it anyway but what I was trying to say is that it was implied that only people that have autism display this behaviour. Or at least that was the implication to me.

 

[GCT]

The mentioning of the masturbation was only in accordance with the topic of precocious puberty, it isn't intricately tied to autism directly. The testosterone levels were quite monstrous for the sample in the pertinent article. And they all display an interest in the female body...at the early age of 7, while most other children are concerned about contracting "cuties" (spelling?) from females and keeping them out of their treehouses. The thing about testosterone is that it takes the predominant role in onsetting some rapid changes as puberty starts, all teenagers deal with this period where physical changes and emotional desires are seemingly
of great importance.

By the way, selfadjoint, the rate is much lower then the statistic you've mentioned as it has been discovered more recently, it's closer to 50%, I'll quote the source later on today as I should really be getting to my research.

 

[Kurdt]

Ah ok seems I misunderstood you.

 

[arildno]

For boys the old rule was "9 out of 10 guys masturbate and the tenth guy is a liar."

Oh, I always thought the tenth did it more than he ought to. Hence his denial of the whole thing.

 

[selfAdjoint]

"cuties" (spelling?)

It was spelled Cooties where I grew up.

 

[Kurdt]

Ok I'm English so forgive the ignorance but just what the hell are cooties?

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

There is one aspect that distinctively separates autistic children from all others...they lack a component of awareness;

Which component? My son is aware of his surroundings. I have an anecdote that indicates that he knows more than he let's on. He only met my father after he (my father) was confined to a wheelchair. My son visited my father on many occasions, but never spoke to him or interacted with him other than to sit passively on his lap. When my son was 4, my father died. More than a year after the death, he saw the special needs access symbol on an elevator. It is a stylized depiction of a person in a wheelchair. My son pointed to it and said "grandpa". For this reason, I don't see any component of awareness that distinctively separates him from other children.

 

[Kurdt]

I agree with jimmy that autistic people are very much aware of the world around them but they choose not to let on about a lot of things that could lead to the conclusion that they seem unaware but its not the case.

I know people with aspergers which is the least inhibitive form of autism (I guess you could think of it like that) who will know something yet to socialise will actually ask a question to something they already know. They do this because already knowing it to them means they'd say nothing unless absolutely necessary (giving the illusion of unawareness) but allows some degree of social interaction.

Another way to look at it is to them the receiving of the information is pointless if they already know it and to a certain degree the conversation is pointless but it stimulates the interaction which they view as necessary to be part of whatever society.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

I know people with aspergers ... who will know something yet to socialise will actually ask a question to something they already know.

I have never seen this behavior in other autistic children, but it forms more than 90% of my son's conversation. My main window into what he is thinking and what is important to him is through these questions. His interests are sharply focused on minute details of obscure topics. For instance he knows far more about "haniwa" than most Japanese and will be extremely frustrated if he asks me a question about them and I don't know the answer (even though he does). The trick is to ferret out the inner boy by considering what lies below the surface of these questions.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Ok I'm English so forgive the ignorance but just what the hell are cooties?

Cooties are a germ that little boys imagine they get by contact with little girls. There is no known cure for the germ, but puberty does wonders for the imagination.

 

[Kurdt]

Ah so its just the Lurgy then

Many of us Englards think its something real!

 

[Mickey]

Not to be rude, but did anyone check out this link?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...918&q=autistic

It's a short video, but simply amazing. I don't want to spoil it for anyone.

 

[GCT]

Awareness pertains to extended consciousness, it isn't simply an ability to walk around and recognize random objects and people here and there. The child with autism may have core consciousness (I refer to these terms, with respect to Dr. Damasio's research and theories), they may even intellecutually realize their existence, but it's not fully realized. Extended consciousness is not necessarily directly correlated with intelligence, Damasio (from what I've read so far) mentions internal verbalization as being integral for extended consciousness, that is being able to carry out a stream of consciousness mode, which is natural for most people. It's not like one is playing chess at one time, and then the next thing that sparks realization is that one is in the classroom attending to the professor's lecture. People with normal consciousness are accountable to what's going on, autistic individuals don't since they have trouble integrating time mattered events because of a lack
of ongoing consciousness so that they can eventually develop a sense of self, or at least take up a time line of what is their life.

It is almost as if one were to get thorough half of their day, then at around, let's say 3 o'clock, they develop some amnesic symptoms,
or if their consciousness suddenly "shut off". How would this individual go about the rest of their day?

They would essentially feel lost, amnesic patients seek to regain their timeline, it is that important, thus even if they had lost this consciousness once, they have the inherent ability to redevelop it. However, even this requires a constant sense of what they're doing, one is seeking to reestablish "themselves." A constant consciousness of this fact and the ability to keep it in mind. Not much matters to an autistic mind, it is as if they never learn anything, they don't attain that level of flow in moving forward, and it seems that they can sense all of this, but aren't able to keep a level of consciousness to establish their lives. It may be that the child has a sense of this, in that everyone seems to be going somewhere. Thus they need a level of constancy to deal with the anxiety of what appears to be regression, because they can't take up a forward perspective of things. Reality becomes familiarity for the adequately consciousn mind, everything is novel for the autistic mind and everything is still going very fast. To them, their mind is what needs to be understood, that's perhaps the core consciousness, they can never "know" that they exist in a "real" world. A normal mind, understands this reality, that is if one were to experience nature in their own style (e.g hiking, camping, on the chair in the back porch with a view to a forested area) you wouldn't need any music, any emotion which spurs excitement, and any God to make the trees come alive, nothing else is needed.

 

[Kurdt]

I think perhaps most of this plays to the heavily autistic individual, but what about somebody with aspergers? I don't think they have no conscious mind nor do I think that people with extreme autistic tendancies have no conscious mind. They just lack certain abilities or compulsins to share things with others and so its very easy to draw conclusions such as they do not appear to be conscious.

I think from my aspergers experience that the break conscious streaming is very apparent but there is no lack of awareness just the inability to maintain a train of thought because it gets sidetracked. For example someone with aspergers may have 6 or 7 projects on the go when somebody else will have 2 or 3. this is because they can only work for maybe an hour at each before losing a train of thought. I'm not sure how this translates to people with more severe symptoms but I doubt they lose consciousness altogether.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

The child with autism may have core consciousness (I refer to these terms, with respect to Dr. Damasio's research and theories), they may even intellecutually realize their existence, but it's not fully realized.

Google "fully realized consciousness".

 

[arildno]

Extended consciousness is not necessarily directly correlated with intelligence, Damasio (from what I've read so far) mentions internal verbalization as being integral for extended consciousness, that is being able to carry out a stream of consciousness mode, which is natural for most people.. The child with autism may have core consciousness, they may even intellecutually realize their existence, but it's not fully realized

This is a fantasy of Dr. Damasio's.
He doesn't have access to anyone else's consciousness than his own, and is therefore merely speculating on what's going on, or not going on inside the autistic child's head.
Typical psychologist's pathologizing blah-blah.

 

[GCT]

Again, core consciousness v.s. extended consciousness...Damasio's theory.

 

[Mickey]

Alright, that link was to a video of a boy with autism who scored 20 points in 4 minutes in a high school basketball game.

How socially conscious do you have to be to do that? More than I've ever been. ;)

 

[Kurdt]

Well whatever basketball is I'm sure you don't have to be that socially aware to play at all, or indeed with any sport. Would you call all sportsmen autistic?

 

[Mickey]

Well whatever basketball is I'm sure you don't have to be that socially aware to play at all, or indeed with any sport. Would you call all sportsmen autistic?

Uh... that's an eerily smarmy question.

Basketball, if you've never heard of it, is a team sport. That means it requires some level of teamwork. And teamwork requires some level of social awareness.

You didn't watch the video. :/

I copied it wrong the second time, so here it is again:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-818944862742874918&q=autistic