Solve for a,b,c,d: Hints & Tips

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In summary, the conversation discusses finding all integers that satisfy two given conditions: 1) a, b, c, and d must be between 1 and 20, and 2) the equation ab + cd = a + b + c + d + 3 must be true. The participants mention trying different methods, such as writing a program or using Excel, to find solutions. Eventually, they come up with four solutions and discuss proving that these are the only possible solutions. One participant also mentions using a code in Haskell to generate all possible lists that meet the given conditions. The conversation ends with a hint towards using the equation (a-1)(b-1) + (c-1)(d-1) =
  • #1
AlbertEinstein
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Can anyone give me hints on the following question.I do not know how to proceed.

Find all integers a,b,c,d satisfying the following relations
i) [tex]1 \leq a \leq b \leq c \leq d[/tex]
ii) ab+cd = a+b+c+d+3

thanks
 
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  • #2
Well, since 1,2,3,4 didn't work, I'd try next to write a quick program or use Excel to see what some of the solutions look like.
 
  • #3
Well I got at least one solution in Excel. Now if I could prove that it's the only one...
 
  • #4
I got 4 solutions using Haskell
[[1,1,2,6],[1,2,2,6],[2,2,2,5],[2,2,3,3]]
These are the only solutions where all values are between 1 and 20. To show that they are they only four (which I'd guess they are) you can use an argument based on how fast ab + cd grows versus how fast a + b + c + d + 3 grows.

Incidentally, because I like to show off Haskell, this is what my code looks like
Code:
-- f just generates all possible lists of length k where each element is at least as great as the next element.
-- I wanted to do this efficient-like, which is why this may be a little confusing.  
f min n 0 = [[]]
f min n k = foldr (++) [] [[a:as | as <- (f a n (k-1))] | a <- [min..n]]

-- If I had done it the easy way instead of the efficient way using f 
-- then then I would have just let x = [[a,b,c,d] | a<-[1..20],b<-[1..20],c<-[1..20],a*b+c*d==a+b+c+d+3 && a >= b && b >= c && c >= d]
-- and not defined f or y
y = f 1 20 4
x = [[a,b,c,d] | [a,b,c,d] <- y, a*b+c*d==a+b+c+d+3]
Then in the interpreter I just typed x.
 
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  • #5
write the above equation like (a-1)(b-1) + (c-1)(d-1) = 5... also, because of the first condition the second term is greater than or equal to the first term...and since they are all positive integers.....

can you work out the rest...?
 

1. What are the basic steps to solve for a,b,c,d in an equation?

The first step is to isolate the variable that you want to solve for on one side of the equation. Then, use inverse operations to solve for that variable. Repeat this process for each variable until all four have been solved for.

2. How do I know which variable to solve for first?

Start by solving for the most isolated variable. This means the variable that has the least number of terms or factors attached to it. If two variables are equally isolated, choose the one that has the smallest coefficient (number in front of the variable).

3. Can I solve for a,b,c,d simultaneously?

Yes, it is possible to solve for all four variables at the same time. However, this may require more advanced algebraic techniques such as substitution or elimination. It is generally easier to solve for one variable at a time.

4. What are some common mistakes to avoid when solving for a,b,c,d?

Some common mistakes include not distributing correctly, forgetting to apply the distributive property, and making a sign error when combining like terms. It is also important to check your answer by plugging it back into the original equation to ensure it satisfies all parts of the equation.

5. Are there any tips for solving equations with multiple variables?

One helpful tip is to label each variable with a different letter to keep track of which variable you are solving for. Another tip is to simplify the equation as much as possible before starting to solve for the variables. It may also be helpful to practice with simpler equations before moving on to more complex ones.

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