Could I have been shot for stepping in to stop a fight?

  • Thread starter moose
  • Start date
In summary: I don't know, bikers, were having a party or something. There was a lot of noise and people driving by were blasting their music. We asked them to turn down their music, and they refused. So my friend and I went outside to talk to them, and that's when one of the guys pulled out a gun and started shooting.In summary, a person was walking down the street when they saw a car pull up and a guy get out with a gun. The guy then shot the person and ran away.
  • #1
moose
557
0
I was in my apartment on my laptop when I hear a bunch of noise outside. I live near a university and it's a saturday night, so this is pretty usual. However I begin to hear people screaming at each other so I go outside to see what's going on.

At this point I see a guy who pushes a girl, gets back in his car, and drives off very quickly. I got his license plate number and some guy who was with the girl calls the police. I talk to the girl to figure out what happened and this is basically what went on

The girl with her friends (two guys and one other girl) were walking down 4th ave (street with a ton of bars) when some guys pull up in a car and start hitting on the two girls. This goes on for a while and after they yell at the guys in the car to leave them alone, one of the guys pulled out a handgun and told them they should be nicer to strangers (or something to this effect). They reverse out so the group can't get a license plate at this time. Now at this point is when they are in my apartment complex's parking lot. The car drives up again and this time one of the guys comes out with a baseball bat. He hits the two guys the girls were with and then also hits both the girls. I came outside to see what was going on right after this had happened.

So basically what's going on in my mind right now is that if I came out earlier/if the guys were still there, I would have confronted them. Now, I'm pretty sure I could have taken a drunk guy with a baseball bat. I've taken enough MMA where this shouldn't be a problem and I have been in a somewhat similar situation before.

The problem is that I'm fairly positive that if I took him down, that guy would have shot me at that point, and that's a pretty terrifying thought. I can take a bat or a knife, but not a firearm... I shouldn't be so quick to act next time unless someone's life is really in danger.
 
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  • #2
Thankful you're safe. Did the others have to go to the hospital?
 
  • #3
Lacy33 said:
Thankful you're safe. Did the others have to go to the hospital?

Surprisingly enough none of them were hurt badly. They were able to keep themselves from being hit straight on I guess.
 
  • #4
It's good that nobody was seriously hurt, since things could've been a lot worse!

Still, I don't get what happened: if some guys are trying to hit on some girls walking down the street from their car, why didn't they just get off the road by going into a bar or something? Regardless, this certainly is a lesson not to yell at people sat in a car: you don't know what they've got in there!
 
  • #5
You're right though, one never really knows when to run to help and just how to do it unless one is professionally trained.
It's too hard just to sit and do nothing. Most people I know would have gotten involved as well. You're a good person. But be soooo careful.
 
  • #6
If the guys sitting in their car were annoying, why did not they simply walk away ? When violence built up, there are positive attitudes one should stick to in order to prevent the situation from getting worse.
 
  • #7
Glad your ok Moose. Your right, it could of turned out very differently.
 
  • #8
moose said:
So basically what's going on in my mind right now is that if I came out earlier/if the guys were still there, I would have confronted them. Now, I'm pretty sure I could have taken a drunk guy with a baseball bat. I've taken enough MMA where this shouldn't be a problem and I have been in a somewhat similar situation before.

The problem is that I'm fairly positive that if I took him down, that guy would have shot me at that point, and that's a pretty terrifying thought. I can take a bat or a knife, but not a firearm... I shouldn't be so quick to act next time unless someone's life is really in danger.

I don't know if anyone could have stopped himself particularly when he knows bit about fighting. And, none of them would have acted wrong.

I wonder if MMA or use of gun would have helped though.
 
  • #9
Did they call the cops?
 
  • #10
Look, it's not your problem. I would have just called the cops from my appartment. You're not the police to protect anyone other than yourself.
 
  • #11
I could have been shot a few years ago, by no fault of my own.

I live on the Texas coast, so on a weekend we went down to a beach where a bunch of people get together. I was in my car stuck in traffic on the beach when a fight broke out about 25 feet away. One guy was all bloody and started screaming "OH GOD, DON'T SHOOT ME!" He was desperately clamped onto the other guy's arm who had a handgun. They were rolling around on the sand and it discharged once before a bunch of other people jumped on top of them. From the time we noticed the fight to when it was discharged was only a few seconds, so not enough time to even move anywhere.

Luckily it didn't hit any bystanders (or anyone else).
 
  • #12
Where is your gun?
 
  • #13
JasonRox said:
Where is your gun?

Huh? I'm completely unarmed.

waht said:
Did they call the cops?
Yup.

Cyrus said:
Look, it's not your problem. I would have just called the cops from my appartment. You're not the police to protect anyone other than yourself.
I would do that if it were only guys in the situation. However, it's hard to stand still if you see girls being attacked.
 
  • #14
moose said:
Huh? I'm completely unarmed.

Why?

If I lived near a university in the US, I can guarantee you I would be armed.
 
  • #15
JasonRox said:
Why?

If I lived near a university in the US, I can guarantee you I would be armed.

But how would have a gun helped in here other than worsening the situation?
 
  • #16
JasonRox said:
Why?

If I lived near a university in the US, I can guarantee you I would be armed.

Simple answer: I'm 19, you have to be 21 for a handgun.
 
  • #17
rootX said:
But how would have a gun helped in here other than worsening the situation?

First, I would have never left my apartment, like Cyrus said.

And the gun would serve as personal protection.

If you learn how to use a gun properly, it can serve a good purpose. Of course, you need to take courses to learn how to use a gun properly, and such. And practice as well.

Just like MMA, or what not. You need to practice. I would never trust someone with a gun who's inexperienced with it. That's just insane.
 
  • #18
To keep this thread from completely derailing and being locked, and considering we've pounded this topic to the floor already, let's keep this on topic.
 
  • #19
MMA's neat. I prefer having a gun for protection. I'm not a ****tard, I'm a responsible adult. I know when not to pull it out (which is about 99.999% of the time).
 
  • #20
JasonRox said:
First, I would have never left my apartment, like Cyrus said.

And the gun would serve as personal protection.

If you learn how to use a gun properly, it can serve a good purpose. Of course, you need to take courses to learn how to use a gun properly, and such. And practice as well.

Just like MMA, or what not. You need to practice. I would never trust someone with a gun who's inexperienced with it. That's just insane.

Yes, but you are confronting two (impaired?) guys who wouldn't hesitate to shoot at you. But, I agree that with proper physical and psychological (not only learning how to shoot) training, it's possible to use gun effectively as a defense (IMO, lot easier if only one person to confront)
 
  • #21
rootX said:
Yes, but you are confronting two (impaired?) guys who wouldn't hesitate to shoot at you. But, I agree that with proper physical and psychological training, it's possible to use gun effectively as a defense (IMO, lot easier if only one person to confront)

option 2: snipe them from a distance with a rifle.
 
  • #22
Pythagorean said:
option 2: snipe them from a distance with a rifle.
I love your practicality, but I suspect that there might be some legal ramifications. :biggrin:

After some 35 years of carrying a handgun, I can definitely say that knowing how to not use it is just as important as knowing how to. In all of that time, it only came out of the holster once, and it was resolved with no shots fired.

I'm glad that you're okay, Moose.
 
  • #23
option 2: snipe them from a distance with a rifle.

but then you're playing judge, jury and God for people and a situation that you have only seen for 15 seconds... Don't be so quick to deal out violence.

Moose, you did what you could and probably were the only one, of the tens of people who saw the event, that would have even got involved to the point that you did, so kudos :approve:

I had a similar situation at my university where I arrived in the parking lot to see a stranger assaulting a class mate of mine. I stopped my car, got out and went to my boot to get out my cricket bat to start dealing some "justice", but then decided against that and tried to use words and reason to calm the situation down. It was a case of road rage that had escalated and ended up in the parking lot. Both parties were to blame, but the assault was over the line. I called the police and ensured that everyone that was around would stay there as witnesses. Almost all of them just walked off and went on their way. There was only one girl who stayed, but in the end she was too "busy" to go to court to testify. I saw a little after I arrived on the scene and started talking to these guys, that the stranger had a handgun holstered in the waist of his pants and I'm very glad I didn't make an already aggressive situation worse by adding to the violence.
 
  • #24
redargon said:
but then you're playing judge, jury and God for people and a situation that you have only seen for 15 seconds... Don't be so quick to deal out violence.

Erm.. I think it's safe to say he's joking.
 
  • #25
I would be careful if I were the OP. A similar situation for my brother resulted in him later being pursued in his car by some guys in another car with a 38-mm... they shot our his engine when he turned down what he didn't know was a cul-de-sac, and when his car died as he tried to drive across the grass, he ran to the nearest house (lucky the door was open and had sympathetic residents that didn't shoot him themselves). He still had at least two bullets in his arm that needed to be extracted... and the cops never had a successful lead in the case.
 
  • #26
physics girl phd said:
guys in another car with a 38-mm...

:bugeye:
What the hell were they driving... a Panzer? That's a freaking anti-tank gun! The Avenger cannon from the A10 Warthog is only 30mm.
 
  • #27
Danger said:
:bugeye:
What the hell were they driving... a Panzer? That's a freaking anti-tank gun! The Avenger cannon from the A10 Warthog is only 30mm.
A local paper did a story on a HS-based marksmanship program in which the students were shooting with single-shot 22mm rifles. Eek! My Glock model 20 is quite a handful and it's "only" chambered for 10mm Auto. (Think .45 ACP on steroids...)
 
  • #28
Danger said:
:bugeye:
What the hell were they driving... a Panzer? That's a freaking anti-tank gun! The Avenger cannon from the A10 Warthog is only 30mm.

... and he had two of those shells lodged in his arm!

Rather than MMA, you should try ASK for situations like those. Your instructor will likely teach you that when you see a gun you RUN!
 
  • #29
turbo-1 said:
single-shot 22mm rifles

I should hope that they were single-shots. Can you imagine trying a follow-up with a broken shoulder? :biggrin:
I saw a demo shoot with a Solothurn 20mm semi-auto once. The barrel recoils about a foot into the action on oil shocks, and even with the bipod dug into a trench it pushed the guy back almost a metre. You have to open the bloody thing with a hand crank to get the first round chambered. The targets were inch-thick steel plates at about 300 metres, and the rounds didn't even slow down going through them. Needless to say, it wasn't a rapid-fire excercise.
 
  • #30
Danger said:
:bugeye:
What the hell were they driving... a Panzer? That's a freaking anti-tank gun! The Avenger cannon from the A10 Warthog is only 30mm.

I'm assuming she means a .38 caliber pistol round. Kind of surprising that it would disable a car engine, but I guess it could.

Glad to see you're ok, moose, and that you were motivated to try to help in the situation. Please do be careful though.
 
  • #31
Huckleberry said:
I'm assuming she means a .38 caliber pistol round. Kind of surprising that it would disable a car engine, but I guess it could.
Yeah, we were just playing a bit. It's pretty jarring that people in the press could write about firearms without knowing anything about them, and it's even more disturbing that they can influence public opinion regarding possession, registration, etc, while being absolutely ignorant about the basic capabilities of those weapons. Those HS kids (seemed to be about equally girls and boys) were so proud of their improved marksmanship as they practiced. If you have ever shot small-bore indoor-range targets, you can appreciate how precise they must be. The sad part is that the school really cannot afford to set up a nice biathalon course. We have international biathalon competitions in northern Maine every winter, and I would love to see these kids get a chance to compete, at least at lower levels. I was a cross-country ski-racer in HS (tops in my school) and I LOVED target shooting, and would have jumped at a chance to blend those.
 
  • #32
For those unfamiliar with biathalon, let me give just a quickie overview. You are racing on a cross-country ski course, and every time you get to a shooting station, you are required to hit all your targets. Missing targets requires you to ski penalty laps around an off-course track until you have paid for your misses, and then you can get back out onto the course. It's a give-and-take. If you are an incredible skier, you can afford to miss a few targets here and there - if you are deadly accurate with the rifle, you can afford to be a little bit slower on the skis than your less-accurate opponents, since you can gain ground while they are skiing penalty laps off-course. This is my favorite winter-olympics sport and broadcast TV usually cheats me out of all but clips of final-round coverage.
 
  • #33
Biathalon was always one of my favorite Olympic sports too, and I also miss that they don't televise it anymore.

As for the OP, I'm glad you're unharmed, moose. It is wiser to call cops first, ask questions later in a situation where you are unsure what's going on. Though, I'm really confused why the group of girls/guys walking didn't head into the nearest open bar/store/etc., and call the cops as soon as someone pulled a gun on them. Even if they didn't get a license plate, they could have given a vehicle description and the cops would know somebody was out on the streets harassing women and threatening them with a gun. I sure as heck wouldn't have stood around waiting to see what they did when they came back.
 
  • #34
Moonbear said:
Biathalon was always one of my favorite Olympic sports too, and I also miss that they don't televise it anymore.
Hi, Moonie! I don't know why this sport is being ignored, apart from the fact that it involves target-shooting with (gasp!) .22 cal rifles. I would have loved to be able to participate. I'm not the leggy, lean X-country skier that can compete at high levels, but I was powerful and capable of explosive bursts of speed when needed and had great wind. The "great wind" is a big deal in biathalon, in which you have to settle down at shooting stations, stabilize, shoot and move on. People who are skiing anaerobically under stress cannot possibly shoot accurately enough to advance.
 
  • #35
turbo-1 said:
Yeah, we were just playing a bit. It's pretty jarring that people in the press could write about firearms without knowing anything about them, and it's even more disturbing that they can influence public opinion regarding possession, registration, etc, while being absolutely ignorant about the basic capabilities of those weapons.

I don't know much about firearms or engines. I don't own a firearm. I do own an engine though. Go figure. I've been trained to drive and can handle most situations I encounter quickly and correctly. I haven't much training with firearms or how to handle situations where I might have a use for one, though more than some people perhaps. That's why I don't own a firearm. A firearm in the hands of someone that doesn't know how or when to use it is like putting a 5 year old behind the wheel of a Buick and driving themselves to kindergarten. It's very not safe! On the other hand, I wish more people would learn to carry firearms responsibly, because police are not going to be there when these things happen. As for the press and public opinion, I've never liked the way they have doled out their propaganda. It's effective in making people fearful and easily manipulated and not an ounce safer.
 
<h2>1. What are the potential risks of stepping in to stop a fight?</h2><p>The potential risks of stepping in to stop a fight include getting physically injured by one or both of the individuals involved in the fight, being mistaken for one of the fighters and getting caught in the crossfire, and potentially facing legal consequences if the fight escalates and you are perceived as a participant.</p><h2>2. Is it advisable to intervene in a fight if I am not trained in self-defense?</h2><p>It is not advisable to intervene in a fight if you are not trained in self-defense. While your intentions may be good, you could end up getting seriously injured or making the situation worse. It is best to call for help from trained professionals, such as the police, rather than putting yourself in harm's way.</p><h2>3. How can I assess the level of danger in a fight before deciding to intervene?</h2><p>Assessing the level of danger in a fight can be difficult, as it may escalate quickly. However, some signs to look out for include weapons being used, multiple people involved, and the presence of aggressive behavior. If you feel that the situation is too dangerous for you to intervene, it is best to call for help instead.</p><h2>4. What should I do if I witness a fight and want to help?</h2><p>If you witness a fight and want to help, the first thing you should do is call for help. This could be calling the police or alerting nearby authorities. If you feel that it is safe to do so, you can also try to diffuse the situation by talking to the individuals involved and trying to calm them down. However, do not put yourself in harm's way.</p><h2>5. Can I be held legally responsible for intervening in a fight?</h2><p>In most cases, if you intervene in a fight with good intentions and do not use excessive force, you will not be held legally responsible. However, if the situation escalates and you are perceived as a participant in the fight, you could potentially face legal consequences. It is important to always prioritize your safety and call for help rather than risking legal repercussions.</p>

1. What are the potential risks of stepping in to stop a fight?

The potential risks of stepping in to stop a fight include getting physically injured by one or both of the individuals involved in the fight, being mistaken for one of the fighters and getting caught in the crossfire, and potentially facing legal consequences if the fight escalates and you are perceived as a participant.

2. Is it advisable to intervene in a fight if I am not trained in self-defense?

It is not advisable to intervene in a fight if you are not trained in self-defense. While your intentions may be good, you could end up getting seriously injured or making the situation worse. It is best to call for help from trained professionals, such as the police, rather than putting yourself in harm's way.

3. How can I assess the level of danger in a fight before deciding to intervene?

Assessing the level of danger in a fight can be difficult, as it may escalate quickly. However, some signs to look out for include weapons being used, multiple people involved, and the presence of aggressive behavior. If you feel that the situation is too dangerous for you to intervene, it is best to call for help instead.

4. What should I do if I witness a fight and want to help?

If you witness a fight and want to help, the first thing you should do is call for help. This could be calling the police or alerting nearby authorities. If you feel that it is safe to do so, you can also try to diffuse the situation by talking to the individuals involved and trying to calm them down. However, do not put yourself in harm's way.

5. Can I be held legally responsible for intervening in a fight?

In most cases, if you intervene in a fight with good intentions and do not use excessive force, you will not be held legally responsible. However, if the situation escalates and you are perceived as a participant in the fight, you could potentially face legal consequences. It is important to always prioritize your safety and call for help rather than risking legal repercussions.

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