Is There Really a Santa Claus? A Response to Virginia's Letter in 1897

[Gear300]

I'm thinkin' of heading up there Xmas eve and not having sex with that woman. Mrs. Claus.

All is alright so long as you do not have sex with that woman. Mrs. Claus.

 

[Pattonias]

If Santa Clause wasn't in his position of power, would Mrs. Claus stick with him despite the affair?
And do they use Raindeer meat for Big Macs in the North Pole?

 

[BobG]

What are you talking about?

About http://www.noradsanta.org/en/whytrack.html as he makes his rounds. In fact, I got to play in this one year, as I was stationed at a BMEWS site in Alaska and was working the mid shift on Christmas Eve.

Instead of asking [/url=http://www.noradsanta.org/en/real.html]if Santa is real[/url], I want to know if Virginia is real.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

In regards to the discovery of the "hobbits", the chance that these little humanoids have played a role in history is tempting to consider. With that in mind, Baywax made a rather interesting post.

... The existence and occurrence of the Indonesian "homosapien minimus" (not a real name) holds a lot of promise in uncovering the origin of many stories that have lasted 1000s of years in various human folklore. The stories are not passed along with a date, no copyright, so when we find possible, probable or definite sources of their content this helps to date the story and perhaps the era of that story.

For instance, there is a version of the Santa Claus tale from northwestern europe about Cinder Claus and his little black elf. Cinder Claus would reward any good children and the little black elf would stuff the bad ones into Cinder Claus' bag and beat them with hammers... er... or like a broom or something (maybe a dash of waterboarding). Then they'd be abducted by the ruthless pair.

Looking at this tale with the knowledge of this Indonesian version of humans and with our knowledge of very early trading practices between Turkey and Scandinavia, (as early if not earlier than 300 AD after Scandinavians navigated the Dneiper River system through Russia to Istanbul) we can see that there may be a connection between the little black hellion and our Indonesian cousins. This is because once the Scandinavians got to Istanbul, they became privy to all of the blunders of the Turkish Empire and its outstandingly accurate navigational charts. On these charts are the Indonesian islands and their booty could have well included curious little "black" people that were perhaps collected and kept to breed during the previous millennia of Turkish history (of 23,000 yrs)...

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=2192007&highlight=history+hobbits#post2192007

If Santa Claus existed, he may have beaten children with hammers [at least his elf did]. Now tell that one to the kids!

 

[Norman]

I figured it out before my parents told me, so it wasn't any big deal. Actually, what was more of a big deal was trying to pretend I still believed in Santa when my parents talked about it because I was afraid they might stop giving me gifts from Santa! Once I found out I had at least 2 more years of Santa gifts to keep up the illusion for my younger sister, all was fine again.

Very similar to my experience. Between school friends with older siblings and a very noisy nature I had it figured out early (I don't know exactly when, but I think it was 6 or 7). But due to fear not getting the presents anymore and ruining it for my little brother I kept quiet.

Then, my parents found my little brother telling me Santa was not real a while later and me denying it to him in the hopes that he would retain his innocence or ruin it for us both (which I am not sure of). Then they told us both and refused (to this day nonetheless) to believe I had known for a while. I still get ribbed about it at the age of 30.

 

[Borek]

Parents... They always know better.

 

[turbo]

I had three younger sisters, and I kept up the charade for them. We lived in a small (<600 pop) town that had lots of small rental "houses" that had been built in the 1920s to house workers building Wyman Dam, and those little shacks were home to some of the poorest people in the entire region. Even at age 5, I couldn't believe that Santa would bring me a small tube of Tinkertoys and a box of new Crayolas and a coloring book without giving some of my friends anything. Even worse was the "good little girls and boys" aspect, because some of the bullies and jerks in town were spoiled kids that got showered with gifts at Christmas. Even 5-year-olds understand fairness.

 

[pbandjay]

I don't think I really ever believed in Santa Claus as much as I just liked the idea of Santa Claus. It was pretty obvious to me when the "From Santa" on the presents were written in my mom's handwriting.

 

[hypatia]

I was told that the spirit of Santa lives in all of us. I was never told that Santa was a real person, but that people dress in his cloths to remind us of the season for giving.

Me being me, even at a young age asked where was he buried, I was told, the North Pole. I think I took them by surprise with that one.

 

[Borek]

This Santa Claus discussion is depressing, I just remembered I have no gift for Marzena :grumpy:

 

[turbo]

I was never told that Santa was a real person, but that people dress in his cloths to remind us of the season for giving.

We had a local "Santa" who would talk to the kids, hand out candy, etc, and he always came and left on the back of the town's fire truck. He was usually half-lit during the "parade" and kiddie-time, and I knew that HE was not real even before I knew that Santa was not real, because I recognized his face and gravelly voice. Some of the older kids would wave and holler "Hi, Bun!" as he passed on the fire truck.

 

[Borek]

I knew that Santa was not real, because I recognized his face and gravelly voice. Some of the older kids would wave and holler "Hi, Bun!" as he passed on the fire truck.

Long ago I have heard story about kids and Christmas with punch line being "Mom, why does the Santa Claus is in uncle's John boots?"

uncle's John boots - I just hope it is in English, somehow I am not sure if that's correct form :/

 

[Sorry!]

well I always had my suspicions, ever since I sat on santas lap at an event and pulled the beard off and it was my dad...

Then one christmas my grandmother was wrapping gifts kind-of tipsy and she wrote 'from santa sue' LOL that confirmed all suspicions...

 

[edward]

I had four older siblings who were blabber mouths. I knew the truth by about age 4.

My son caught on one Christmas at age five when he noticed that Santa was wearing his grampa's shoes.

 

[ideasrule]

I don't know when the first time I heard of Santa was. It was certainly after I was 7, but I probably didn't know "Santa" was supposed to be real until after 12.

My dad tried to tell me once that Santa was coming. I don't know whether he expected me to believe it, but I pretended to believe him.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Nothing. I'm thinking Mrs Santa must consequently be very horny, and I'm wondering if she looks at least as good as Monica Lewinski.

Like I said, I believe for Lauren Graham...
http://www.indiescene.net/badsanta.jpg
And keep my Santa suit handy.

 

[zoobyshoe]

If Santa Clause wasn't in his position of power, would Mrs. Claus stick with him despite the affair?

Didn't you hear? Santa passed away in '67. The official story is a massive stroke.

But there are whispers of a lone gunman.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Like I said, I believe for Lauren Graham...

And keep my Santa suit handy.

Do you also have a suit for your "little helper"?

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Do you also have a suit for your "little helper"?

Candy striped even.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Candy striped even.

That's faith!

 

[Pythagorean]

I've been contemplating whether I should lie to my daughter or not.

 

[GeorginaS]

When I was really little, say two and three years old, I remember sitting next to the radio on Christmas eve listening to The Santa Report. When the radio announcer said that Santa's sleigh was spotted flying over Ottawa, it was time for us to go to bed, because Santa could arrive any moment. Oh! Wow that was exciting. And sleep? Who could sleep? It was all magic and magical.

I remember my sister reporting that a big man with fur on the ends of his sleeves had come into our room and pulled her blankets up and tucked them around her. That's how she knew he had fur around his sleeves, because the fur touched her face. She was convinced beyond a doubt, for years, that that had been Santa. (Later, much, much later, we found out that my grandfather had visited that night to drop off gifts and had come into our room and tucked us in while we were sleeping. Or, my sister was half asleep. He was a large-bellied, jolly fellow delivering gifts, so he was close enough to Santa in reality.)

And kids, particularly little kids, live in a world of possibility. Anything and everything can be real, and when it's pure fun and delight, it's wonderful.

I don't remember a turning point, a moment, an age, when I knew fact from fiction about Santa. I know I didn't ever believe in the Easter Bunny because that was all too improbable for me, even when I was really, really young. (I loved the hunt for hidden candy, though.) But yeah, no, there was never an epiphany-type moment when I learned the truth. In the meantime, the story was wonderful.

 

[27Thousand]

I never believed in Santa. In fact, I can't even imagine my dad telling me (or any kid, actually) such a thing.

I think it's funny that a lisab just said that. My sister before she got married was a Lisa B. She said that she thought it would be dishonest to tell her kids that there's a Santa Claus and then later break the truth to them. She's said that many times throughout her life. She found out as a kid and was pretty upset at my parents for leading her on. She's had a big fiction imagination throughout her life and is a good writer, so I don't know why though. So now that she just had her first kid, I'm curious if she's still thinking along those lines.

I'd probably tell my kids there's a Santa Claus, then later break the truth to them and tell them about all these peer-review journal articles on fiction and mathematical models that I may create from R Statistical Computing programming language. That's if I get married, which means I need to work up my scientific creativity to create equations on how to read the flirting habits of women.

 

[Pythagorean]

I'm going to tell my kid(s) that Santa died... in 346 AD. She's going to make all the other kids at school cry.

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

[Santa1]

How can you not believe?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I figured it out around age five or six, I think. Being that our family is full of pranksters, to me it all seemed like just another practical joke. I remember being a bit bummed, but the logic of it all had bothered me anyway.

It has been shown time and again that having a fantasy life is healthy for kids. Are a few years of magic worth the reality check? I think so. Life is full of disappointments. Perhaps the Santa disillusionment is good training.

Why rob a child of the few years of joy and wonder that Christmas magic can bring.

 

[turbo]

I figured it out around age five or six, I think. Being that our family is full of pranksters, to me it all seemed like just another practical joke. I remember being a bit bummed, but the logic of it all had bothered me anyway.

It has been shown time and again that having a fantasy life is healthy for kids. Are a few years of magic worth the reality check? I think so. Life is full of disappointments. Perhaps the Santa disillusionment is good training.

I remember being quietly self-satisfied to have figured it out, and really bummed to realize that many of my best friends had no real chance of getting much for Christmas apart from some really inexpensive do-dads (if that) and maybe some socks or underwear, because their parents were too poor. This was the '50s, and we didn't have garage sales, lawn sales, etc - just networks of friends and family who would hand down clothing, shoes, etc that their kid(s) had outgrown.

I had a couple of older cousins in West Hartford (thank god they were boys!) whose mother would never bother to repair clothing. My great-uncle ran a towing and car-repair business and they were quite well-off. The boys were just a bit older than me, and when the family got together back in Maine around Thanksgiving, their mother often gave my mother nice department-store kids' clothing with minor rips, missing buttons, etc. Mom was a great seamstress, and she could take apart a slightly oversized shirt, and tailor it to fit me. We did OK. Feeding a family of 6 on about minimum wage and all the overtime he could take... I still try to take care of my father because I know how tough it must have been.

 

[physics girl phd]

I remember sleeping right next to the tree (we were all in Florida to visit my grandparents for the holidays) and rolling over onto my sister's pogo stick... and waking to tell Grandma (making tea in the kitchen, probably after helping my parents sneak the gifts in) that Santa had come. I was probably under age five.

I don't remember when I stopped believing, but I do remember buying my sister a stuffed bear at the school holiday fair (like a book fair), and showing it to her when I got home (but shh... act surprised at Christmas!) Of course when the bear was unwrapped, she and my brother got in a tussle and the bear's head popped off. Another holiday at my grandparents... so thank goodness Grandma was there to sew it back on.

 

[Redbelly98]

I was 8, and started having doubts until I just asked my Mom point-blank if there was really a Santa Claus. She seized the opportunity to tell me the truth without hurting me, and simply told me "no".

Soon after that, I posed the same question to her about God. I couldn't believe the difference in her answer, and in how upset she got over my asking it.

 

[turbo]

I was 8, and started having doubts until I just asked my Mom point-blank if there was really a Santa Claus. She seized the opportunity to tell me the truth without hurting me, and simply told me "no".

Soon after that, I posed the same question to her about God. I couldn't believe the difference in her answer, and in how upset she got over my asking it.

I had that one figured out, too, RB. I was probably at least 12-13 years old until she relented and let me stop attending Sunday-school. My mother was French-Catholic and my father was not of the faith, and they both had to promise to raise me in the faith. It took a lot of NO!s to get my way.

The logical refutation for me came when discussing people who would be relegated to Limbo. What could a child who was born too soon have done to deserve that? I knew that my church's version of god was as empty as Santa Claus very young. Disbelief was not welcome in some quarters. God could not have left my friends as impoverished as Santa, when they had parents who were very nice and worked hard... except that god always seemed to let them down.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Sept, 1897

"DEAR EDITOR: I am 8 years old.
"Some of my little friends say there is no Santa Claus.
"Papa says, 'If you see it in THE [NEW YORK] SUN it's so.'
"Please tell me the truth; is there a Santa Claus?

"VIRGINIA O'HANLON.
"115 WEST NINETY-FIFTH STREET."

VIRGINIA, your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age. They do not believe except [what] they see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds. All minds, Virginia, whether they be men's or children's, are little. In this great universe of ours man is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect, as compared with the boundless world about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge.

Yes, VIRGINIA, there is a Santa Claus. He exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no Santa Claus. It would be as dreary as if there were no VIRGINIAS. There would be no childlike faith then, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The eternal light with which childhood fills the world would be extinguished.

Not believe in Santa Claus! You might as well not believe in fairies! You might get your papa to hire men to watch in all the chimneys on Christmas Eve to catch Santa Claus, but even if they did not see Santa Claus coming down, what would that prove? Nobody sees Santa Claus, but that is no sign that there is no Santa Claus. The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see. Did you ever see fairies dancing on the lawn? Of course not, but that's no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world.

You may tear apart the baby's rattle and see what makes the noise inside, but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest man, nor even the united strength of all the strongest men that ever lived, could tear apart. Only faith, fancy, poetry, love, romance, can push aside that curtain and view and picture the supernal beauty and glory beyond. Is it all real? Ah, VIRGINIA, in all this world there is nothing else real and abiding.

No Santa Claus! Thank God! he lives, and he lives forever. A thousand years from now, Virginia, nay, ten times ten thousand years from now, he will continue to make glad the heart of childhood.

http://www.newseum.org/yesvirginia/